ReFoRMaT

As you well know, from time to time I post my experiences with different distro installs and testing. I tried Redhat 9.0 a long time ago and had nvidia and rpm problems. I just tried Fedora Core 3 the other day and nothing has changed. No, wait, I actually made it to the desktop this time without swapping video cards. Of course that was after the first install attempt froze because of samba, I had to start the install again and uncheck anything samba and voila, installation continued. Gnome sucks (except speed wise, I found it faster than KDE), plain and simple, too simple actually. Where is all the settings? Where is the windohs partition? I could 'see' windohs from Suse. I don't dare try a different desktop not 'native' to the distro. I have enough problems with the default desktop. So I am sittin' at the desktop thinkin' the picture is off center because the nvidia driver is not installed, down that dark, bumpy road I go. Fedora offers NO NVIDIA DRIVER, why? Suse makes you click yes to the user agreement, why can't Fedora do the same (I hate to say this but Billy G. is right about distros not taking heat for copyright infringement, blah blah blah)?. Fedora, legally, is a 'ghost' so they can't do the same as Suse, but wait a minute, I saw nvidia drivers in the Debian apt archives and Debian is a 'ghost' too. Did I mention Fedora sucks? Red Hat/Fedora is way over rated. So I go get the latest nvidia driver, and of course there is some, uh, lots of dependancy problems and manual file configuration JUST LIKE OLD WINDOHS! After screwing around for an hour, I can't get to the desktop anymore, JUST LIKE MY FIRST 'RED HAT' EXPERIENCE. So I deleted the partition to make room for Debian. I hear Debian has excellent package management, not to mention lots of 'em (packages). What newbies really need is a 'Suse like' distro with a GUI apt-get. RPM REALLY STANDS FOR RETARDED PACKAGE MANAGEMENT! Good thing I switched to cdrw's for iso burning, I got tired of throwing money in the garbage! Debian is 9 disks, thats right, you are not going blind, 9 disks. I will be trying Debian 3.0 r3 and installing lots of the 'newer' unstable stuff. By the way people, DON'T WAST YOUR TIME WITH THE DEBIAN 'NET INSTALL' CD IF YOU HAVE A DSL/PPPoe CONNECTION. PPPoe is not supported, it wanted me to use my modem (which I use for faxing only) or a 'cable' connection. Can you imagine installing a couple of GBs of Linux from the internet with a 56k modem? MY LORD, get real! P.S. I am not sure it I posted my Mandrake 10.0 experience. It was a little better than Fedora but it is still based on the Red Hat/rpm model which I am starting to despise. I didn't like the corporate money grab attempts from the website. It wasn't that great that I would pay for support or anything else from them. Overall, I thought Mandrake 10.0 was ugly and confusing. I don't know why it is so popular. So far Suse is winning my 'desktop' but I find it lacking in cutting edge software and mutimedia. Stay tuned...

Nah, I think I will just move on. I feeling a bit of an elitist attitude. I don't need somebody with a yesteryear affection for an obsolete OS trying to tell me it is good. That is like Bill Gates trying tell me windohs is good, safe and reliable. BWAAAAHAHA! I appreciate the fact that most Linux packages were built from voluntary blood, sweat and tears but that doesn't make them ALL good. Last time I looked, Canada and the U.S. were freedom of speech countries. If Linux people are going to be over sensitive, then the 'cream' will never rise to the top where the 'cream' deserves to be.

You don't sound much different than a couple of IT people I ran into in a broadband forum. I supplied tons of proof than certain tweaks dramatically improved connection speed in pppoe/win98se and I got the 'you are just a simpleton home user' attitude and was dismissed as a fraud. I don't care how many networks you have serviced or created and what 'letters' you have after your name. RED HAT/FEDORA SUCKS. Maybe redhat was okay years ago for 'servers' and ultra geeks but today people want a distro to replace windohs. NOT A BUGGY PILE OF DOG S**T. Red Hat was clumsy for home pc's to start with, then they (Red Hat Corporation) hung it out in the 'breeze' so to speak, aka the Fedora project to get 'free' labour from the public (upgrading and debugging). MAKING OTHER SO-CALLED NEWBIES AWARE OF ALL THE FACTS MIGHT SAVE THEM SOME HEADACHES AND TIME BY AVOIDING LOUSY DISTROS (Fedora is not the only lousy distro out there). The Debian PROJECT is absolutely fantastic but, in my opion, the distro is 'lacking'. That is why I chose ProMepis and will shout how great is from the roof tops if I have to. I have not spent one minute in a classroom but have mastered all flavours of 'home' windohs (including 2k pro), built and repaired many new and old machines and am now 'moving on' to Linux. I think other 'home users' like to hear the honest truth from somebody more on their level. Maybe Red Hat was the only 'major' distro around back in your day but it is a totally different world now. Have a nice day!

KsCD is playing Moby/Play/Porcelain as I am typing this. Somebody was thoughtful enough to 'gray out' stop disk before changing drive association. I only had the left channel until I opened Kmix, muted then unmuted CD and boom, both channels. It would appear any Linux needs a little 'push' here and there.

Correction...I updated all INSTALLED packages (after installing glx for the nvidia driver to work) in apt-get before the sound started to co-operate. I have the master at 100%, PCM at about 65%, mono down and muted and both 3D's are off. The startup sound file is choppy but after that the system and media sounds are fine (haven't tried the cdrom audio yet). Tip: restore the Kmix window, click settings, configure Kmix, check restore volumes on login, apply, ok (I couldn't figure out why they were always going back to bad <--duh). I 'scanned' a couple of forums regarding the nvidia lack of refresh rate but it looks like there is no fix right now. 76Hz is better than 70, serious eye strain begins at 72Hz. Even though the odd program likes to quit for no specific reason (pretty rare), I would take this distro (ProMepis) over Suse any day. Fedora and Mandrake went in my garbage can along time ago so I won't even 'go there'!

I found the solution for the 'Sound System' problem. It would appear that some of the settings in ProMepis are not defaulted as they should be (the settings after defaulting are much different than right after a fresh install). All I had to do was click defaults, then apply. I don't friggin' believe it! Didn't even lock up! I think rebooting once in awhile helps too. Linux reminds me of windohs 98, once it gets a hold of memory, it is slow to 'give it up'.

I think my search is over. I believe I said in a previous post I was going to try ProMepis again. Well I did a little comparison 'shopping' based on some info from http://distrowatch.com/ and ProMep had the best of most 'worlds'. Latest browser, absolutely fantastic multimedia support (Mplayer in the Firefox browser, Xine for playing files from disk(s) and RealPlayer just in case of a .r** whatever file). Actually Xine played a 'Real' file that RealPlayer refused to...get a load of that! The only real complaint I have is the old Xfree86 x window server(ver. 4.3 I believe). I have the actual nvidia driver installed but can't get a higher refresh rate of 76Hz @ 1024x768. It should go as high as 87Hz for this monitor (Optiquest Q71, Horiz. 30-70, Vert. 50-160). Regardless, open GL is working and the 'fireworks' screensaver is absolutely amazing (after you enable tons more features than what is 'on' by default). The 'just good enough' video is a small price to pay for an excellent free distro with the latest OpenOffice.org (1.1.3). Another small complaint (aimed at KDE) is the system sounds play like hell, sound from other sources like media players are louder, crisp and clear, thats a kanundrum if I have ever 'heard' one. By the way, be careful if your sound is buggy and you adust setting(s) in 'Sound System', Linux locked up on me everytime (the mouse still moved but NOTHING else would respond). I have onboard ESS Allegro (ESS 1988). I haven't tried the printer yet but I am not sure I care because I can hook it up to the wife's 'winbox' if it won't work. Now maybe if somebody would write a cdrw/udf program, my prayers would be answered. In the mean time, I think I am ready to jump ship, the (pirate skippered) S.S. Micro$cam. Did I mention ProMepis has Deb/apt-get? No? Well it does, hey fellow noobs, stay away from RPM distros if you can, bloody scary, I tell ya!

Take Ubuntu for example, there is no 'in your face' pppoe (dsl) setup tool. Open a 'root' terminal window and type "pppoeconf" (without the quotation marks) and then hit the <enter> key. You will see a bunch of questions in a 'text' style interface. I answered yes (by hitting the <enter> key) to everything and had to type in my dsl provider supplied login name and password. I am posting this from Ubuntu 5.04. Really cool distro but I am not too fond of the 'simpleton' gnome desktop. Maybe if you are former 'Apple' user, you might like it but being a Micro$lop sucker up to now, I prefer KDE.

I did not know you could do that, I must give it a try. Thanks for the tip gentlemen!

I'm baaaaaaaaaaack...I just tried Novell Linux Desktop 9 (NLD9). Hmmm...Suse 9.1 without X.org (NLD9 still uses xfree86 4.something) so of course there is no nvidia driver update (mind you, the 'dummy' driver as they call it, works good if you tweak all the right settings but the 3D is slow even though saX says it is not enabled). Get this, NLD9 has RealPlayer 10 which Suse 9.1 does not (why?), Suse 9.1 firefox only goes up to 0.9.something (with yast conflict reports, 0.8.something safe though), NLD9 firefox is 1.0. I guess they (Novell) think office people don't need blazing graphics to do their work and Suse thinks 'home' users don't need the latest and best open source browser or the most recent Realplayer. I smell a scam to get a user hooked, then fed up enough to run out and buy Suse Pro 9.2 (it sounds like 9.2 has the best of both worlds). NO I DON'T HAVE A DVD BURNER, so please, don't even go 'there'. I know Suse offers the dvd iso but not everybody owns a dvd burner yet. This is why I am getting p*ssed at Suse. They are starting to feel a lot like a software giant that I despise. What is with Red Carpet AND Yast in NLD9? They both work (sort of) but close on you with no warning and for no particular reason (very wierd). Red Carpet would lock up if I tried to download the NLD9 documentation (which apparently I had but was showing as 'available'). Conclusion, Suse 9.1 loves my hardware but has crappy software choices, NLD9 has great software on top of older (buggy) Linux. The last you want is your update/installer tool to be buggy, how can you trust it? NLD9 is supposed to be 'enterprise'! I got so tired of re-writing my mbr, I started to put all the grubs on floppies. I am giving ProMepis another kick at the can, then U-bunty-buntu again. If anybody has used/tried Suse 9.2, please tell me if it has the latest firefox (1.somethin'), X.org.whatever, nvidia support AND RealPlayer 10. Who knows, I just might bust my piggy bank and buy the box set. By the way, saX is the best thing since sliced bread! Every distro should be using it! If Suse 9.2 is everything I think it is and runs smooth, it just might be my replacement for windohs. After all, Linux (whatever distro) just keeps getting better everyday so Suse 9.2 would be just fine for now.

Just a suggestion. How about a 'next page' button/link at the top of each of the thread pages. It is a bit of a pain to scroll/drag the page to get to the 'next page' button/link.

Boy, that was fast! What service! 5 star all the way! (just kidding, really, you guys are great on this site)

"Typically, I recommend RH (OK, Fedora), Mandrake, or SuSE for newbies. After that, I recommend they go to a Debian-based distro for a while. Later, they "grow" into Slack, Gentoo, or something similar." You have pretty much, described to a 'T', the path I am on. Since I am somewhat of a fast learner, maybe I should skip the 'Debian' and go straight for Slack or Gentoo. OK, here is a crucial question: which distro (any 'flavour') has the biggest following/support from IT/developers?

"Whether or not you feel it may benefit you personally, (which obviously you don't)" Dear Mr. D. Dan: I 'absorb' everything you guys say but what if the first distro I tried was a real stinker? Stick with a stinker? Actually it was, it was Red Hat 9.0 and I hated it. I think it is more like find a 'shoe' that gives you the least blisters and 'run' with it. There, ya see, the best of both worlds. Also, I am quite aware that other noobs will be reading this, that is also part of the exercise, maybe save somebody else the headache of trying practically every distro out there by 'gleaning' distro info from you guys!

"I completely agree. The time to start experimenting with other distros is after you've used one a good long while and have gotten very familiar with it. That way you have a good sound foundation from which to size up other distros as better or worse for you against what you've learned." With all due respect, that is like putting the cart before the horse. Which distro do I use for this 'break in' period? Besides, you guys are losing sight of what I am and what I am trying to do which is: I am a windohs user who is somewhat computer savvy (a smidgeon of DOS, 95 up to XPee but using 2k and now some Linux), I am trying to find a 'non-computer-scientist' distro to take the place of windohs, NOT learn the command line in its entirety (some command line, I find, comes with the territory of ANY operating system so it's a given). That being said, Suse would be a lousy 'break in' OS because it is GUI up the wahzoo (besides, they are showing thier true corporate colours which turns me off). I actually like using the command line once in a while from within the GUI, makes me feel a little 'hackerish'. I think a polished Debian based (reasonable functionality of apt-get and widely supported) distro is my best bet. Decent hardware detection/automatic setup helps too.

"/dev/hda2 /mnt/windows ntfs defaults,errors=remount-ro 0 1" Tips and tricks are always welcome, thank you. "As long as we're sizing up new distros, I'm coming to you from Slackware 10." I have yet to try Slack', Gentoo, Ubuntu, some of the *oppix's and Damn Small. "ReFoRMaT, your best bet is to simply stick with a distro, any distro" Nah, what 'fun' would that be? If I did that, I would never find that 'comfortable shoe'. Besides some distros find most of my hardware better than others. "the harder it is to get any real "feel" for that distro or Linux in general." They all 'feel' just about the same depending on the kernel because the 'extras' 'satellite' the kernel. Some distros have better incorporation of 'extras' than others. I won't mention any names but some distros are a complete mess like they were assembled by drunks, ugly and disorganized.

Is that possible? I plan to only boot into one distro at a time but what if one is Rieser and the other Ext3? I am going to resize the Suse partition with the Mepis live disk to make room for a Mepis hdd install.

Thank you for your answers. I suspected a single swap partition was multi distro usable. Thanks for you confirmation. About grub, they all do the same job with different graphics so if the Suse grub gets overwritten with a new grub that will automatically add all existing os's, that will just save me the hassle of manually adding. Thanks for that extra information though.

I may have spoke to soon. Don't get me wrong, Mepis IS pretty cool but...nVidia problems again *sigh*. Got the driver to install in both versions but I can't change the refresh rate (higher). If you boot the install @ 800x600, that is the highest you will get AND an all time high of 60Hz in the drop down menu. Same goes for 1024, except for a highest refresh of 70Hz. I am posting this in Suse 9.1 @ 1024x768 with a refresh of 85Hz. I just don't understand why the driver installs in most distros, but is buggy as hell. Mepis is a 'heart in the right place' kind of situation. The 'Simply' was much more stable than the 'Pro' b04. In the Pro, my onboard ESS sound was terrible (excellent in other distros). I went to change it from 8bit to 16 bit and Pro locked up like a bank for a long weekend. I definitely like the look and 'style/thinking' behind Mepis but that is not enough to set my win2k install disk on fire with lighter fluid yet. Apt-get worked good for about 99% of the time. Apt is way better just for shear freedom of choice (even if some of it will crash your system). Limited software dictated by a corportation (Suse) sucks, gee sounds like somebody (M$) we all love to hate. I found Pro to be buggy and unstable, I chose not to install Apache Server for the first Pro install (I will install anything over and over to give it the benifit of the doubt) which caused me to not get on the internet even though I had a 'connection'. On the bright side I got my HL-1435 brother laser printer to work in Suse even though they say they don't support it (I chose the 1430 model in drivers). Now I will do my imitation of a stuck record, if only Suse had apt-get (I looked high and low in the packages and installing third party is a nightmare in Suse so I can't be that bothered). I am going to give SimplyMepis another bunch of installs to see if I can work the bugs out. If any body has had similar experience with the nVidia driver in SimpyMepis 2004.06, I beg of you, post the solution pllleeeeeeeaaazzze. My video card is a GeForce FX5200 128MBddr ('k, stop laughing anytime y'u'r' ready). One more thing, how do you shut off the graphical background boot once Mepis is installed, its all 'funhouse mirror' bent out of shape and annoying.

Guess what, I am posting this frrom ProMepis 'live'. Mepis makes Suse look like dog food. I am outta here to install it to the harddrive. Pro has a newer kernal than Simply AND (Pro) has Firefox. I want to especially thank DapperDan for steering me in the Mepis direction. I just hope the harddrive install goes as smooth as the 'live' boot up. I AM IN SHOCK AND AWE PEOPLE! Hey noobs, don't waste your time, money or disks on the other wannabe distros. Mepis is the 'poop' man!

I changed my mind. I am going to download ProMepis too and try them both. If I am not mistaken, Pro has a newer kernel (correct me if I am wrong).

Hey 'root', did I ever tell you your screen name cracks me up? How about this for a root password: carrot? How about this for a user/password: couch/potato? So that would make me /home/couch - pw=potato. BWAAHAHAHAHA! Linux is just too easy to poke fun at!

I have to wait for the stores to open to buy a larger capacity writable disk. Dang Simply, simply don't fit on a cdrw. Jeeze, if it ain't one thing, it's another. (contraction: ain't (colloquial) am not, has not, have not, is not, are not - who ever said ain't, ain't in the dictionary?)

I'm back and I don't care what you guys think, I have hung around enough chat rooms and assorted forums to know when somebody is being patronizing. Regardless, me and my SLOW computer have CALMED down now. Ok, enough with the yelling (talking to myself out loud). I just might have found my perfect distro. I am in the process of downloading SimplyMepis04.06. It has KDE, mplayer (if I read one of many reviews right), apt-get/deb package management, native nvidia support and assorted other goodies. The only thing I am not to thrilled about is no Firefox browser 'right out of the box'. Guess I will 'deal' with that after the install. Somebody had suggested ProMepis (I believe it was Dapper) but after 'Googling' the difference between (strange how the difference is not stated on the Mepis site) Pro and Simply, I decided I don't need the extra 'serverware', etc. that comes with Pro (not yet anyway). I am praying to the Linux Gods that this is the 'one'. A common theme I am reading all around the internet is fed up windohs users waiting for a decent, bugfree (at least somewhat), functional and not so complicated that it takes weeks to get working distro. These same users have been down the path I am currently on and waiting in the wings, ready to pounce on such a distro.

I highly respect you Dapper but...this dylaar character was calling me an idiot in a 'read between the lines' manner. Then to add insult to injury, he (I will assume it is male) had to verbally barf about my 'slow' computer. If he or anybody else cared to read the WHOLE thread carefully and NOT selectively, there would be no need for this conversation! My apologies to you and the OTHER posters. Delete my previous post if you feel you must.