Dirty Harry

Here we go H. ________________________________________ [size:12] Case - Lian Li PC 60 USB PSU - Enermax EG365P 350 W, Dual fans Motherboard - Abit KG7 Raid CPU - Athlon 1400 @ 1600 (11,5 x 139) CPU cooler - Swiftech MC462 + Y.S.Tech 80 mm fan (45.2 cfm, 34.2 Db, 3000 rpm) Memory - 256MB Mushkin DDR 2100 2-2-2-2 Hi-Perf Graphics Card - Asus V-7700 AGP Hard Disks - 80GB IBM 120GXP + 45GB IBM 75GXP (both 7200rpm/ATA-100) CD-ROM - Asus 50x CD-R CD-RW - Ricoh 7040A CD-RW (firmware upgraded to a 7060A) Sound - PCI Soundblaster Live 1024 + Cambridge Soundworks Monitor - Philips 21' Monitor 21B582BH Keyboard - MS Natural Keyboard Pro Mouse - MS Intellimouse Optical USB + Logitech Trackman Marble FX NIC - 3COM Dynalink 3C905C-TX-M LAN - 3 PC's over Linksys Etherfast Cable/DSL router BEFSR41 TV-card - Hauppage Win/TV Theater (model 498) PCI SCSI-Controller - Advansys SCSI Controller (for the old JAZ drive) Case Cooling - 2 front fans (in), 1 back fan (out), 1 top fan (out) Temps - idle 49C, full-load 53C (case closed) [/color] ________________________________________

Nah, go AMD, apart from being faster its also cheaper. What you see here it a lot of "post purchase disorder", ppl trying to rationalize that they got less, but paid more. I haven't had any AMD/VIA related problems, most are Microsh1t related anyhow. There are millions of happy AMD users out there! H.

Hey, as everyone assumes that Auger has no financial restrictions, I'd like to point out that SCSI and RAID do not exclude each other. Therefore I suggest a RAID array with SCSI drives. Now that beats both SCSI and RAID, doesn't it ? H.

What CPU do you have ? Idle 46°C doesn't sound that bad, not if you're playing with an Athlon. Thats where my idle lays, which I'm happy with as the full stress temp is 55°C. CPU is a Athlon 1400 running 1600 H.

Shash, are you listening at all ?? You need to plug a new CPU into the system and boot from a floppy to minimal hardware configuration. H.

If your mobo isn't working you can't sell it, and the other components go in any motherboard, don't they ? But you'll never know if your mobo is working before you've plugged a new CPU in it. If you're short on cash, just buy a new CPU to start with, and when you are at the shop, buy that freaking floppy drive too !!! The by far most likely thing that has happened is that you've fried your CPU (actually I was about to write ..you've just fried your CPU...) My guess is that you've partially damaged it earlier already, and thats why disabling the cache seemed to fix your problem. There is no way a home user (or many PC shops) can test a mobo without CPU and RAM. Personally I would feel very confident (usual disclaimers apply) that you run an almost zero risk if you plug in a brand new CPU in your mobo. It will either work or not work but your mobo is unlikely to damage it, as long as you have a suitable heatsink/fan combo properly installed. Obviously you shouldn't use your old one, and if you buy an Athlon XP dont't get nervous if it boots up funny, your bios is old etc. But check that your Mobo's newest bios update supports that new CPU. As you're not an overclocker, you can buy pretty much any heatsink/fan combo intended for your new Athlon. The differences are really not that big between various sinks, a few degrees at most. Do buy a sink made for a 80 mm fan and a good, sleave bearing 3500-5000 rpm fan to go with it. Make sure its running at all times (big grin). The fan should blow inwards, onto the sink. Plenty of info about coolers you'll find HERE and lots of test results of different coolers is located HERE. As said, the main thing is the fan, but don't overdo it, a 7000 rpm Delta fan is almost as noisy as a jumbo jet. H.

Basic checklist: - Are the 1400 and the 1800 made for the same FSB (Front side bus)? T-bird 1400's come in two flavours, a FSB of 100 Mhz and 133 Mhz - Bios supports XP 1800+? - CPU identified automatically and correctly ? or - are CPU parameters set manually & correctly (FSB, multiplier, voltages)? H.

What are you saying here- that you can't boot from the hard disk or that the hard disk is invicible after you've booted ? As a rule, you shouldn't, and often simply cannot pick a HD with OS installed from an old Mobo and plug it in on a new system and just boot. Different chipsets etc are not recognized on the fly with W2K or XP. With older OS's this was not that much of a problem. A reinstall is the only way to go. There are some tricks that might circumvent this, but not worth tring IMO. If you again are saying that you can't see / access the old HD at all when you've booted from somewhere else - could it be that you boot with a DOS /w98 boot disk etc and the HD is NTFS formatted. Then you can't access it, its not a bug its a MS "feature". H.

And (or) just drag a shortcut there for anything you want to appear. H.

Hey, sh1t happens. And it wasn't really a waste of time, and the moments I tought you're running the rig w/o sink at all were even memorable. Buy a decent heatsink for yor next Athlon (they're bigger and bulkier than any you've seen) and a new CPU and there you go - your system should be up and running in no time. If not, buy a new mobo etc. H.

Oh, another thing is better too, it boots faster. Saves 10+ secs. On the other hand, how often do you boot? If its often, switch to XP, add up the savings and book an extra vacation! H.

Sometimes this helps: F8 boot to safe configuration (the one w/o any drivers etc), power down properly and boot normally. Its cheap to try! H.

Beats me, but W2K started to look a bit old. The cartoonish GUI of XP is a change, anyhow. H.

Alright Shassounes, maybe I was too harsh with you, sorry. I couldn't know that it was a mistake that you stated that you don't have a heatsink at all, and that would've been a cardinal sin. Don't know why but I feel for your problems. To solve your problem you need to proceed systematically, noting what you've done and how you changed things and what happened. It makes no sence for you to try to fix windows errors (like in your other thread) when you have this problem at hand. You can't start building a new house by putting in the second floor first either. You'll have to do a complete reinstall from scratch before your system is up and running again, if that is ever to be possible. Sorry to say but it is likely that Davros is right and your CPU or another component is permanently damaged. Your CPU idle temp is now ("after 7 minutes idle, case open") extraordinarely high. 61C as a idle temp is in fact so high, that your machine could (would) propably crash just because of the effort of loading windows (or shortly after). Your CPU is specced to run up to 70C under full load, like an hour of intensive Max Payne fraggin. This, the full-load temp, will be 5-20 C higher than the idle temp, depending on your heatsinks efficiency. Previously you reported CPU temps lot lower than now. I suspect that something maybe went wrong when you reassembled (after reading the text on the CPU). The idle value is the lowest one you'll ever have, machine running for a while. Forget the temp at startup, idle temp from now on means as you've just measured it. Question 1. Describe your heatsink (height, width, lenght). How is it attatched to the CPU ? looks aluminium ? fins, pins etc ? Question 2. If you do have a fan attached to the sink, how big is it (40mm/60mm/80mm or in inches if you prefer) and in which direction is it now blowing (onto the sink or away from the sink)? Question 3. Did you use something (thermal grease, a sticky pad, Arctic Silver etc) inbetween heatsink and CPU when you reassembled after checking the CPU numbers? How did you take away the old gooey on sink and CPU? Question 4. Are you sure that the bottom of your heatsink is in firm, flat contact with the CPU. Be careful when checking, if you press and twist too much you could break the ceramic surface of the CPU. Voltages... there isn't much you can do about these without another PSU and we do not (cannot) know wether they are reported (by the sensors onboard) inaccurately or if they are truly wrong, unless you have a voltometer handy. The overvoltage on your CPU (1.792 instead of 1.75V) is propably just causing some extra heat, but the undervoltage on some of the others could maybe contribute to the instability. As long as your idle temp is 61 his is a minor problem anyhow. Wait for comments on questions 1-4 before you proceed (just to avoid further damage). When you have a disk drive and a W98 boot disk ready, download the mem test program suggested earlier in this thread. Disconnect all nonessential hardware. Just pull out the cables from your CD's, harddisk etc and take out all extra cards, printers etc. With other words, you only leave the mobo, CPU (with heatsink & fan), one stick of RAM, the shining new floppy drive and the graphics card in the pc and only hook up the monitor and the keyboard. See then if you can boot into 1400 Mhz repetedly with this setup, and when you can, run the memtest program (from a separate floppy) for 30 mins or so. Maybe a CPU test proggy is good too, we can revisit which one later. Just to be absolutely clear: The procedure is to get the PC to boot OK at 1400 mhz, then getting some test programs running OK from a diskette, then adding a hard drive (still booting from floppy), then renstalling XP OK, then adding the rest of the hardware one piece at a time and so on. There are no shortcuts, a machine which cannot boot allright will not run anyhting OK. Forget your WIN install and the sysinfos, they are totally irrelevant as long as you can't even boot the machine consistently at its default. Keep the spirit up ! H. P.S. stop calling your CPU "supposedly 266 capable". You've read the text etched onto it yourself, and if you read it and transmitted it correctly it proves your CPU is a 266 one.

WOO-AA the guy isn't even using a heatsink on his Athlon 1400. Can you believe it. You gave great advice too, this is actually so weird it is funny, even to funny to get really pi55ed about. Checkout my last message in the orig thread STOP errors maybe related to faulty cache memory H.

I can't believe this. I feel like a complete idiot. I've spent hours on trying to help this guy, who posted just some 4 months ago IN THIS OTHER THREAD on this very board: "I see. I think it may be overheating actualy. I do NOT have a heat sink! All i have is a mall fan!" Shassounes himself posted these immortal words November 28th, 2001, while happily running a AMD Athlon Thunderbird 1.4GHZ. Several people showed him links why not to do this, and told him what happens if you run an Athlon without a heatsink. And in this, the current thread, just a few messages back Shassounes writes "Does anybody know where i can get a decent heatsink and fan combo for Athlona and Athlon XP processors". That should have made my early warning system go off, just by itself. Well, I was suspecting he is hiding something, I should just have listened to my intuition and told him to water cool his system with the garden hose. Shassounes, sell or give away your computer, this is not a hobby for you. But do it fast, you are likely to hurt yourself on the PC if you persist. H. -------- So many a$$holes, so few bullets...

Agreed, Asus is good, but I've found my Abit boards just as good and way more overclockable & tweakable. What reason do you have to be so against Abit, you used to even have a "AntiAbit coalition" tag in your sig ? BTW, the mobo is not the place to save on if you are building a quality system. H.

Lop.com, just did a google on it and it appears to be a site which you very well would suspect to be linked to scumware. It could also very well be that some java / active X / whathaveyou deliberately has written in this in your system files. If you found out what did it, please post. I didn't go to the site (I don't wanna have it modiying my settings) but I would expect a ton of popups, collecting cash for the owner. Hammer time, anyone ? H.

Weeeelll, how do you copy a CD if the original is in the CD-writer and the blank disk in the CD- ROM ?? That, my friend would be revolutionary if you do it directly. OK, OK, you could of course do an ISO file etc, but jokes aside, Clone CD does not work with all CD-writers, check their site for a list of supported drives. H.

Heh, he is propably doing this on the same machine (the one where nothing works) that we've been discussing in another 40+ thread. Sampson, you have the patience of an angel... H.

Shassouneh, Your PC is getting sicker by the day, and I have to agree with Davros feeling that you are not really using the advice you get. After you cleaned the CPU, what type of termal paste did you use ? How did you apply it ? What was there before (paste or sticker)? You do have a heatsink with a working fan on that CPU ? Pls confirm make and model. Please report make and model of the PSU. The overvoltage on your CPU causes extra heat, and the other odd voltages cause instability. You just have to test with another PSU to see if thats the problem What is your current idle CPU temp? Boot to bios, leave it at 100/100, stare at the Bios screen five minutes not touching anything and read the CPU temp. That must be a fairly consistent value. How difficult can it be to put in a floppy drive, after all you can buy them cheaply. You have another computer too, don't you? Take the PSU from there (if 250W or bigger) and try that. Why don't you remove all and any extra hardware ? Your sysinfo still shows, among other things, DVD players and printers installed. Given that you had this system running 6 months with the current BIOS and hardware I would not recommend o update it before you've solved your current problem. A win 98 boot disk is essentially the same thing as a DOS disk. Before you get that running its just a waste of time to try to get into Windows or Linux or whatever. Again, the idea is to establish a minimal working configuration, to eliminate all non essential hard- and software that could cause trouble (or drain power) H.

Quote: [defaulting to 100/100] ... is very common, as a safety factor, to default to the lower system bus speed upon a CMOS reset. Consider it analagous to your video drivers defaulting to 60hz refresh rate. Can very well be, I've been on Abit-boards for sooo long. My KG7R finds the CPU correctly upon first boot (or after clearing CMOS). But why are the voltages wrong ? If this is a safety factor the advice is: set the CPU settings as they should be, boot to DOS from a floppy, stress mem and CPU a bit on 11.5 x 133 and see if it works. BTW, I subscribe to the statement "Just because the system ran for 6 months does not mean it should still run" H

See, thats the real problem. Already on boot your PC refuses to accept or identify the parts thats in it. Or did you always need to tinker with the settings to get it running correctly ? Sleep well, H.

No, we know, beyond doubt, that your CPU is designed for a 266 speed. The numbers you wrote down from the CPU core prove it, see the link I provided on how to interprete whats written on the CPU. We also know that your voltages are wrong. Alarmingly much wrong, IMO. PSU's are generally made for both Intel and AMD, so the P4 label is OK. What make and model is your PSU? You wrote that your CPU is autodetected as a 1050 (meaning 10.5 x 100Mhz) This is wrong, as 1400 is written on the CPU. It should be 1400 (10.5 x 133). Only when you manually tinker with the settings you get it to run at the speed it is made for, or am I missunderstanding something ? H.

PSU = Power Supply Unit. Your voltages are definately not what they should be, so if you can, test with another PSU. "the temperature seems to vary" ?? This is strange. The CPU Temperature which your data post above gives as 55C/131F (sometimes 56C/132F) should be fairly consistent when the machine has been idle for a minute or two. Ideally below 40C... I'm running out of ideas why your CPU in your Mobo is identified incorrectly. This is your main problem right now and windows has nothing to do with it. It is caused etiher by a wrong setting in bios (unlikely, as you have cleared the CMOS) or defect hardware. I'm afraid you're nxt step is to test the hardware: - test another PSU - test CPU in other mobo - test Mobo with other CPU - test different RAM Only when you get the CPU identified correctly does it make sence to proceed to Windows. H.