Why are you running Linux?

[Maillion 0]

I'm a little bit of a programmer. Although I haven't done much in a while I now have the ability to find the source to Linux and all the Open Source software. Is there anyone here who can find the source for M$?

[Corvus 0]

Hey.. why do you laugh so?

 

Oh.. sorry.. M$ & It's source.. )

 

Bill or Mac'84 ? )

[jimf43 0]

Quote:

Just thought I would pose a poll as for your reasoning in selecting this OS. For me, the final kicker was the pricing on "upgrading" our Exchange server from 5.5 to 2000. As there is no longer an upgrade option, it will now cost at *least* $10,000US for us to REPLACE the licenses, rather than a few grand at the most to upgrade them. I decided that since many applications have matured, while many more new ones are coming down the pipe for Linux that I would try using it again.

Your poll is flawed. truth is that I'm still tied to W2K and still haven't found a desktop that equals it. I run Linux because Windows is going in a direction which makes it dramatically less functional with releases after W2K. XP requires a huge effort to make it useable. All of the operation is hidden under layer upon layer of bad eyecandy. Longhorn looks as if it's going to be even worse. Add to that the increasingly arrogant behavior of Bill'$ M$ and you have a lot of people including me, looking for a better/alternate solution.

I said that Linux isn't as good a desktop environment as is W2K, but, the gap is rapidly closing. Many many people are working very hard to make Linux work as a desktop, and it's obvious that sooner rather than later they 'will' achieve parity. When that happens, I want to be able to switch over as an experienced user rather than a newbe. The fact that Linux is open source is just gravy.

So, I continue to work with different Linux distros, currently Knoppix/Debian, and I'm waiting for that parity. Not too much longer now...

[Maillion 0]

Quote:

[ ...

Your poll is flawed. truth is that I'm still tied to W2K and still haven't found a desktop that equals it. I run Linux because Windows is going in a direction which makes it dramatically less functional with releases after W2K. XP requires a huge effort to make it useable. All of the operation is hidden under layer upon layer of bad eyecandy.

...

I said that Linux isn't as good a desktop environment as is W2K, but, the gap is rapidly closing. Many many people are working very hard to make Linux work as a desktop, and it's obvious that sooner rather than later they 'will' achieve parity. When that happens, I want to be able to switch over as an experienced user rather than a newbe. The fact that Linux is open source is just gravy.

So, I continue to work with different Linux distros, currently Knoppix/Debian, and I'm waiting for that parity. Not too much longer now...

Actually, M$ began to go downhill when they began to 'replace' DOS with Windows, but that is just my opinion. As far as the "good desktop environment" Linux allows you to change that in many different ways - KDE, Gnome, IceWM, and many others, all of which are basically different to each other and allow the user to install themes and make their own. I currently also use Knoppix/Debian, and during the last week, I have changed from KDE to IceWM and then to Gnome and then back to KDE. BTW, you can get your KDE to act just like Windows, Mac and others... Windoze did not have themes until Win98, I think, and even then, you had to buy Plus! to get the capability. One of the basic principles of Windoze is hiding things using 'eyecandy' M$ does not want you to see what they have installed on your computer, and it is next to impossible to find out what that stuff is, if you happen to find it. XP tries to limit you to two or three 'special' folders, and it is hard to find "Windows Explorer" (it is not in the menu). Linux on the other hand is 'Open Source), which means that you can find the source code for everything installed on your system, and thus you can find out what it all does (assuming you can read the source code). M$ ignores you when you send in a bug report, Linux people read them all, and if you are a programmer, you can fix it yourself. M$ ignores you if you ask for another feature, Linux people may not add it, but they don't ignore you, and again if you are a programmer, you can add the feature yourself. M$ will not allow you to change the equivalent to a kernel in any way. Linux suggests that you do this. There is more, but my post is getting long... 8)

[Corvus 0]

Very good gravy.

 

I too hope it won't be too much longer. It isn't so much the bring down M$, but more Bringing in someone else who is more .. friendly. in alot of different ways. Mostly user.. ..uh.. when you get use to it

 

Quote:

Actually, M$ began to go downhill when they began to 'replace' DOS with Windows, but that is just my opinion.

 

I think that is close to true.

[Dapper Dan 0]

As a desktop we are finding that, minus a few irritations, the stability of Linux is a quality which far exceeds the "ease-of-use" conveniences offered by Bill and Steve. The only app we must use that is Microsoft oriented is Quickbooks. We run it with Win4lin, still it is more stable than it ever was natively. As far as other apps go, mostly we use Abiword and Gnumeric. If you ever need a spreadsheet program, Gnumeric absolutely rules! It just will not crash! I've tried! It just runs and runs! We use it on a daily basis to do daily and weekly broadcast logs.

Bill and Steve are gonna sell Longhorn on the same premise they sold XP, that it will take care of all the security problems we have had with previous versions. Yes, Longhorn will be more secure in the short run, but eventually it will be exploited just like XP was, yet again, setting the stage for Bill and Steve to sell us yet another version of MS software that will take care of the security issues exploited under Longhorn!

Linux is very challenging, but it's worth the time and effort I have invested just to keep Microsoft out of my life! Thank God I'm off Bill and Steve's plantation!

I'm free at last!!

[Corvus 0]

I wouldn't call them exploits.

 

I would call them Money making opertunitie$.

 

Notice the M and $ )

[Dapper Dan 0]

When it comes to MS the two terms are synonymous.

[Corvus 0]

Ha! )

 

I suppose it would be in one of those Thearus/Dictionaries )

[jimf43 0]

Quote:

... Actually, M$ began to go downhill when they began to 'replace' DOS with Windows

Certainly the 16bit was a disaster, as was the 9x/ME series. NT based systems are another matter, very useable and stable... At least until the advent of XP ;-). Now I have 'Longhorn' to look foward to??? I don't think so!!!

As I said before, Linux in various Distros is getting real close... Some hardware, program equivelency issues, and compatability with the industries that I work with, but, that seems to be coming together.

I've been running Linux, in one form or another as a dual boot for about 3 years now and the progress is impressive. the big improvement recently is the overall industry acceptance of Linux as a desktop. I think that we'll start seeing a lot more support for things like hardware from OEMs because of this.

[jimf43 0]

Quote:

As a desktop we are finding that, minus a few irritations, the stability of Linux is a quality which far exceeds the "ease-of-use" conveniences offered by Bill and Steve.

I'm not even going to get into the "ease-of-use" issue, but, My systems running W2K are just as stable as anything I've seen in Linux.

Quote:

Linux is very challenging, but it's worth the time and effort I have invested just to keep Microsoft out of my life! Thank God I'm off Bill and Steve's plantation! I'm free at last!!

Here you bring up a couple of good points. Managing Linux is a whole different headset than doing Windows, as is running a Linux desktop. Not necessarily better or worse, but definitely culture shock. You 'must' put in the time and effort going from one to the other. Most of the population is used to M$ and don't want to expend the energy to change unless they have a very compelling reason (human nature?). Fortunately, Bill'$ giving them 'many' reasons .

Hum... I just noticed that nobody voted that they are running Linux because it has their favorite app... Is that significant?

[Corvus 0]

I think most run windoze BECAUSE it has their favorite application. (which can translate to game.. )

 

 

 

Quote:

I'm not even going to get into the "ease-of-use" issue, but, My systems running W2K are just as stable as anything I've seen in Linux.

 

Humm.. think the code was.. um removed or placed by you know whom.. (I don't think they could write it on their own.. )

[Dapper Dan 0]

Quote:

I'm not even going to get into the "ease-of-use" issue, but, My systems running W2K are just as stable as anything I've seen in Linux.

That has not been our experience at all. Our main office computer, a new Dell, loaded with XP locked and crashed 6 times in less than a month causing loss of data. Linux apps will definitely lock occasionally, but we can always "xkill" it without loss except for this fiasco which I don't attribute to Linux. Running Quickbooks on XP caused two of the six with loss of data. We have yet to experience any such losses running Quickbooks on Windows 98 running on Win4lin on top of Linux.

[Corvus 0]

I have had XP crash 3 times, just short of 2 months, required the shutting off the machine by powering down at source (The Plug). Of those, the BIOS was corrupted 1 time preventing the system from booting at all. Or being installed. Good keys were not seen as good. After reciving new flashed BIOS I could re-install XP.

My Linux machine hasn't crashed, or given me troublesome faults. Granted I still don't have the sync quite right for the monitor and one of the programs I had used, so I will occasionally get monitor funnies... no big deal. I can guess the keys to press to get out of it.

 

But that is just me... .. sorry I ment XP

[jimf43 0]

Quote:

That has not been our experience at all. Our main office computer, a new Dell, loaded with XP locked and crashed 6 times in less than a month causing loss of data. Linux apps will definitely lock occasionally, but we can always "xkill" it without loss except for this fiasco which I don't attribute to Linux. Running Quickbooks on XP caused two of the six with loss of data. We have yet to experience any such losses running Quickbooks on Windows 98 running on Win4lin on top of Linux.

I'm not disagreeing with you about XP. I was running a triple boot with W2K/XP/Linux for about a year. People kept trying to tell me how stable and compatable XP was, but, my experience was that XP had no advantages over W2K , and was a pita to configure as well. To make XP stable you have to turn off 'all' the bells and whistles and a bunch of other features as well. Even then... About a month ago I completely deleted XP from the system . Dual boot to W2K or Knoppix/Debian now.

As I remember, NT was originally designed by the same guy who designed VM. From NT4 thrugh W2K It's a reliable OS... But, with XP Bill$ right back to the same old crap. Eye candy and bogus 'features' replacing good system design and stability.

Since IBM abandoned OS/2 (I'm still shaking my head over that one), Linux is the only other viable alternative. Right now, my Knoppix/Debian will run 'almost' all the hardware, connects to everything, and has near equivalents to all but a couple of my favorite Engineering and system / file management programs. A few more print drivers and I just may switch permanently.

My Laptop is another Dilemma. It came with XP. I updated it to Pro, but now I'm thinking of changing it over to W2K... Knoppix boots perfectly and, everything works so, I'm real tempted to install that. But, I have to maintain total compatibility with my office, so it probably won't happen.... Ah, the compromises in life .

[idud 0]

I love opensource, that's all 8)

[Dapper Dan 0]

idud is right. I don't know about the rest of you, but I've had 100 times more fun running Linux than I ever had running Windows. Plus, with me, when I was running Windows, there was always this felling that I was at the mercy of my computer. What a horrible feeling!! With Linux, I feel completely in control of my computer! It's a liberating feeling, and I will NEVER go back to using Windows.

[SoulNothing 0]

ME dislike M$ what kicked it was microsoft xp

[Maillion 0]

Do you want to get a fairly decent visual idea of what causes problems in OSs? Try the following: Get yourself a piece of printer paper. At the bottom, draw a box and label it 'CPU'. At the top, draw another box, and label it 'User'. In between, add rectangles representing the programs that are in the OS - for Linux, add first 'Kernel' and then 'Shell' and if you use a 'desktop environment' add the 'display manager' and finally the 'GUI'. Above this woud be the 'user programs'(except for the 'command line' programs, which simply leave out the 'GUI' and 'display manager' communicating with the 'Kernel' only through the 'Shell'. Originally Windows would have looked pretty much the same, but since Win95 was introduced, M$ no longer has a sequence as such. 95 was about as close to this as Windoze has ever been. For 98, you would have to take parts of the GUI and attach them directly to the 'Kernel' along with at least one of the 'user programs' (the web browser'). As Windows 'progressed' more and more stuff has been 'integrated', making the result more and more like a maze. Other OSs are similar to the Linux diagram, or more like the Windows diagram. The Linux style is more stable because each level communicates only with the level above or below. The M$ style is not, because each level communicates with the ones above and below, but also with some above the next one up and perhaps the ones below the one immediately below. Except perhaps in XP, there are two 'shells' operatiing at the same time, one called "Windows Explorer" the other called "Internet Explorer". (98 and ME) In XP, and possibly 2000, 'Internet Explorer' became the primary shell and 'Windows Explorer' became mostly a 'user program'. I could be off on some of this, but one thing is certain, M$ has created, mostly purposely a "rat's nest" of code, that it is doubtful that anyone even in M$ can fully understand. The point is, the further you get from the CPU, the more chances that something will screw up. The more complex the stages between you and the CPU, the more chances something will screw up! 8)

[Corvus 0]

Quote:

.. the more chances something will screw up! ..

That sounds like M$.

Take something simple and.. (fill to hearts content.. just remember someone else may have added that so after you get yours in remove.. well maybe remove.. then add...)

8) I wounder how much of that resembles their actuall code? ;( x)

[SoulNothing 0]

So thats why M$ isnt opensource there code is too damn confusing

[SoulNothing 0]

So thats why M$ isnt opensource there code is too damn confusing

[Mel 0]

In reference to the 8 0r 9 gb missing on hd in XP.

XP has a lot of MRU (Most Recently Used) files. These are hidden files.

From the moment XP is installed those files record everything including key strokes, web sites visited, programs installed or uninstalled.programs opened

and closed programs downloaded.In short, everything on your computer and periodically send the info to M$.And yes ,BG knows you use Linux.

These files can get quite large and eventually become noticed as a shrinking HD.

A lot of your drive space can be recovered with utilities like MRU Blaster which

delete MRUs. Of course ,being freeware, those utilities are probably loaded with thier own spyware.

Also when I uninstall XP components , I use MyComputer to find and delete thier folders. Now instead of programs being reinstalled ,I get a lot of startup messages saying "file ?????? not found in specified location " .One thing though, XP has a

lot of duplicate apps installed in different locations, sometimes as many as 5.If it doesn' find it in one location ,it will move to the next and so on. That's why XP is such a HD hog and certain files keep being reincarnated.

[SoulNothing 0]

i like linux running text on laptop but hp no accepty must use hammer for it holds windows it took me like 4 hours to get windohs to work 2 to install when i install linux it takes 20 minutes at max but windows holds king because of gaming options and all the non techies like its simplicity. But when it crashes and it does quite often. (I notice this at my school) people will start banging the mouse against the desk picking up the keyboard drop it, punch the monitor and start cursing. So microsoft succesfly destroys every perphial with your computer

[pamindic 0]

Originally posted by Dapper Dan:

Quote:

The only app we must use that is Microsoft oriented is Quickbooks. We run it with Win4lin, still it is more stable than it ever was natively.

 

Would you please let me know which version of Quickbooks you're running on Win4Lin, and if there were any glitches with it. I wondered if the updates, which are done through IE, might be a problem. I'm still trying to get Win4Lin running, so I haven't yet reached my ultimate goal of running QB on Linux.