NetBEUI support in Windows XP

[CM 1]

Found an unsupported method to get NetBEUI support back into Windows XP.

 

Here is how:

1) Copy NBF.SYS & NETNBF.INF from the Win2k installation to a floppy.

2) Remove all "CopyFile" & "DestinationDir" related comments from the INF.

3) Open network connections/properties/install/protocol/have disk/...

4) Add NetBEUI

[Angelkid 0]

Do you have any idea how to get netbeui to work if upgrading from wondows me ? I want to install the windows xp but need to be able to network and Im afraid if it doesnt support netbeui that I will lose it and dont know how to get the network working again.

 

Thanks for any help you can give me.

 

Susan

Angelkid

[felix 0]

I can think of many good reasons why NetBEUI should be left out.

 

Why would you want to use a poor quality protocol like NetBEUI anyway?

 

Everyone uses TCP/IP for net stuff, so bind NetBIOS to TCP/IP.

 

The three best reasons for NOT using NetBEUI:

1. It is not routable

2. It has no error checking capability

3. It suffers from packet loss on congested networks.

 

I think it's a step in the right direction leaving it out.

 

To get NetBIOS working over TCP/IP, use the following steps:

 

1. Ensure both machines have same IP and Subnet range (eg 192.168.1.x & 255.255.255.0) and then bind NetBIOS to TCP/IP.

 

2. Ensure both machines use same workgroup (not necessary but easier)

 

3. Ensure file sharing is enabled and that both machines have corresponding account names, or guest accounts.

[Brian Frank 0]

Well, here at home with our little DSL and network we use NetBUEI instead of Printer and File Sharing PLUS a Firewall...makes it harder for the malicous types to get at us. I guess Im one of the few that still uses it. I put NetBUEI in XP, but dammed if I can get the stupid box to network regardless of what I try, and no, Im not gonna change the whole network for a BETA OS. Plus its on my multiboot machine, so I can still use Win2k to get my stuff.

[Intlharvester 0]

Reasons for using NetBEUI:

 

1) Networking with DOS machines (how I use it - TCP/IP eats too much memory).

 

2) It's really fast on single-segment LANs.

 

Getting rid of it for no good reason would be a rather unfortunate event. Is this in XP Pro or just XP Home?

[bash 0]

Both NetBUI and DLC are out for XP.

 

-Kevin

[Chreo 0]

Why use NetBEUI...

 

NetBIOS is unsecure, even more so when bound to TCP/IP.

U can have a more secure local net using NetBEUI all you do is unbind it to the net connection and remove TCP/IP for filesharing.

That way noone can connect to your shared files from the internet (which they otherwise can if you haven't blocked those ports in a firewall). NetBEUI have it's limitations that's for sure, but for a home network it works very nice.

 

I don't think Microsoft should decide which networkprotocols we should use. Put them all in (not very difficult) and let the users choose instead.

[bash 0]

Quote: NetBIOS is unsecure, even more so when bound to TCP/IP.

 

This is not true. NetBIOS in WIn2k/NT and XP I would imagine is fully securable. When people speak of the poor security of NetBIOS they are speaking of 9x.

 

-Kevin

[Intlharvester 0]

"NetBIOS in WIn2k/NT and XP I would imagine is fully secur_able_."

 

Which is not the same thing as secure. In fact, out of box 2K (and I imagine XP) will happily accept unencrypted logins and broadcast all sorts of interesting information to anonymous connections. It needs to do this or back-compatibility breaks. Just because retarded 'share' passwords aren't used doesn't make it secure by any means -- at it's core it's still an 1980s-era trusted LAN protocol.

 

NetBIOS/SMB is only secure if it's firewalled away. NetBEUI does that for you automatically by being non-routable.

[bash 0]

Quote : NetBIOS/SMB is only secure if it's firewalled away.

 

This is not true. BY using existing portions of WIn2k/XP you can effectively secure NetBIOS(prevent enumeration of shares/users/groups and make use of strong passwords). In addition XP ships with a personal fireall exactly for this purpose.

 

-Kevin

[Intlharvester 0]

True, but at the cost of back-compat and some administrative conveience. I wouldn't consider an SMB network to be really secure unless it's pure-ActiveDirectory and the machines have been locked down. And even then, you might be the first on your block to discover something (most existing old style-SMB hacks have been known for many years).

 

Unless you feel that you've got a real solid understanding of SMB (using materials other than MS's documentation), I would treat it as 'cleartext' protocol much like FTP and firewall it away to your LAN.

 

The XP firewall is a good step, but only if it blocks SMB ports on the Internet side _by default_ in the home internet config. It would be much better if XP Home shipped with only NetBeui bound to the MS Networking stuff, and the assumption that TCP/IP was for untrusted Internet connections. Most home users can't and won't be bothered to change this stuff.

[bash 0]

Quote: The XP firewall is a good step, but only if it blocks SMB ports on the Internet side _by default_ in the home internet config

 

It does.

 

As for backward compat. An NT/2k/XP instance of NetBIOS is extremely securable even w/o AD, as you can force everyone to use 128bit encryption for everything that involve passwords, including downlevel 9x clients(DSClient.exe). I've tried a numer of crackers on the NTLMv2 hashes sent by/to win9x clients with DSClient and LMCompatibility 3 and they cannot decode them.

 

-Kevin

[Chreo 0]

Point being, NeiBIOS is much more insecure by default than NetBEUI as it can be routed. That you can make it more secure afterwards is of little help to those who doesn't know how. I know how, as part of my work involves server security, but most ppl don't.

 

Why take out a protocol MS had working nicely in Win2k and still include AppleTalk that not even Apple wants to use?!

 

The users should be able to decide which protocol they wanna use to share files on their local network and not be forced by MS to conform to their will.

[bash 0]

Quote: NetBEUI

 

In case you've never tired to bench it, NetBUI is slow as dirt. I say good riddence to this protocol. Screw downlevel clients. Use all Xp/2k and use TCPIP w/o NetBIOS.

 

-Kevin

[Intlharvester 0]

Strange, I have timed large copies using NetBEUI versus NBT and NetBEUI was about 20% faster on an isolated LAN. Which makes sense because it's a simplier protocol with less overhead.

 

Now, that was NT 4, single CPU, and there was no broadcast traffic to speak of, which pretty much reflects a home network only. But if ain't broke, don't fix it, and NetBEUI ain't any more broke now than when MS was pushing it back in the 80s.

 

Besides, if MS is trying to "improve user experience" by screwing downlevel clients, it would be nice if they went all the way with pure NTLMv2 and killed all the old LanMan crap along with NetBeui. (The "pure AD" comment was pointed at known issues with lanman domain controller replicaiton and browse masters. I believe there's also some RPC DoS attacks that can be executed as an unprivledged user. Don't want to be the guy who finds out, so I say firewall.)

[clutch 1]

NetBEUI is faster than than TCP/IP and IPX/SPX in MS OSes. It always has been. It is much smaller and simpler, and takes a VERY low amount of overhead to operate on a small LAN (which was its intent).

 

As far as whether or not NetBIOS is "secure" over TCP/IP, and if NetBEUI is secure at all, that's completely pointless. NetBEUI is not routable, so the traffic can't go anywhere other than your small network. And as for NetBIOS over TCP/IP (or IPX/SPX for that matter), it was merely for built-in name resolution/broadcasting on a network. It was never meant to be used on large networks where you would have a true name resolution service anyway. When you remove it from your bindings, the only change you will see is that you can't use "Network Neighborhood" (UNC Paths) without a WINS box. Almost anything that was developed to ride on TCP/IP used clear text initially, so I would think that is a much bigger hole than unwilling name resolution would ever be. Not to mention you can perform reverse DNS lookups on a target IP, and know what network it is a member of anyway.

 

If NetBEUI is removed from WinXP, I could live a long life knowing that. TCP/IP is the protocol of choice now. MS figured it out a while ago, and so has Novell. That's why you don't see Novell wasting its time with that lame NIC-killer protocol anymore.

 

One more thing, for those who do move large files (ISOs in particular; you know, for "archiving" ) you can use "ESEFILE" from the Exchange 5.5/2000 CDs. This is pretty useful for copying large files, and could shave a good amount of time off of your copying. It was only a modest improvement for me in one case: I copied a 404MB ISO of Win2k Server in 76secs using this from my Win2K AS box to my Win2K Pro box using TCP/IP, Intel Pro/100 Mgmt adapters, and a Linksys router with built-in 10/100 switch. Use Explorer, it took 81 secs. However, there was a noticable reduction in drive chatter from my server using ESEFILE.

 

http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q248/4/06.ASP

[Mr_Q 0]

You all have listed great reasons for and against. However, here are the simple facts. NetBeui *is* more secure than TCP/IP Why? Because when unbound from TCP/IP, as it should be, it is completely transparent to the internet. Your shares on your network will *only* be seen on *your* local networking. You will *never* seem them on the internet as they do not exist in that pipeline. Combine that will killing Netbios over TCP/IP and your networking is virtually invisible. And that's even without a firewall. I find it odd that MS has killed it in favor of TCP/IP for local networking. Which, it's own wizard tells you, is an unsecure way to build a home network. That you better use a firewall! DUH! That's why you use NetBeui!

[clutch 1]

I wasn't paying attention to this thread, so see my response in http://www.ntcompatible.com/vb/showthread.php?threadid=14984

[Flitzman 0]

as stated in \VALUEADD\MSFT\NET\NETBEUI\netbeui.txt on the winXP cd:

 

Quote:

NetBEUI (NBF) is a non-routable protocol suitable for small networks.

Support for this protocol in Microsoft Windows has been discontinued.

If you are instructed by the Product Support Personnel to install this protocol

as a temporary measure, follow the instructions below.

 

Installation instructions for NetBEUI protocol on Windows XP and Windows 2002.

 

* copy nbf.sys into the %SYSTEMROOT%\SYSTEM32\DRIVERS\ directory

* copy netnbf.inf into the %SYSTEMROOT%\INF\ directory

* open network connection properties and use "Install..." button to add NetBEUI protocol