I just some bad news about 3dfx and WindowsXP

[SHS 0]

Well boys & girls it look like WindowsXP RC1 will not be getting any Voodoo3,4,5 drivers they have been pull from WindowsXP build 2499.

My guest would be nVidia woudln't give MS the source code for the 3dfx cards, Man is nVidia is evil they just want to trash anything that 3dfx related.

 

You may well forget about run any Glide or OpenGL games some DX game do work just fine with Windows2000 1.04 drv but the one build in to 2495 XP work just fine with very few bugs.

 

Be sure pass this a round.

[clutch 1]

I don't see how nVidia is evil since:

 

A. You don't know for sure that nVidia restricted anything from MS.

 

B. If I made decisions at nVidia, I would pull 3DFX drivers myself. Pulling the drivers would be one less thing to support. The 3DFX line is not making nVidia any money at the moment. Not in technology, and not in name recognition. Therefore, it stands to reason that it's not "pulling its own weight" with respect to development/support money.

 

So, in either situation, I fail to see the reason for being mad at nVidia. 3DFX is dead, plain and simple. One day, members from the original crew may get together and start something else, but it wont be the same.

[Seldzar 0]

First off it was clearly stated by someone from MS that nvidia will not give them the source for the 3dfx drivers. That means directly or in directly they are the initiating cause.

 

second, Nvidia has never supported nor have they ever had to support anything 3dfx, this was clearly stated in the agreement when nvidia bought 3dfx's IP.

 

Basically MS coudln't fix a few bugs in the drivers that, in their opinion were severe enough to remove, and nvidia didn't provide the source so they could repair and get the drivers working to their standards so they removed them.

 

So yes it is Nvidia's fault for being dirty bastards who like to screw millions of customers cause they don't like people owning a 3dfx card and want them to upgrade to an nvidia card. Having no drivers in winxp is the first step, whos to say it wasn't nvidia's urging that messed up glide and ogl? <-- that is most likely the bugs that ms wanted to fix.

[BladeRunner 0]

Of course it is NVidia's fault but it is a sensible business decision.

Sure companies like to take over others and obsorb the core technologies, however they don't want the hassle of supporting what are for all terms and purposes 'Dead Products'.

You take a risk whenever you buy any piece of hardware from any manufacturer, if the company dies or is obsorbed by another there is a very good chance that all support will cease.

In some cases this is different.

Take Microsoft and Great Plains.

We use Great Plains here, just recently they were taken over by Microsoft and the first 'Microsoft Great Plains' now isn't far away.

However we still have full support for Great Plains as it currently stands and we have been told that support will remain until we decide to move to the newer release, by Microsoft.

 

Microsoft only ever include drivers in their OS that meet their WHQL standards.

They wont allow bad or dodgy looking drivers to ship with their OS because if WinXP automatically installs a driver for your 3DFX card and it in turn brings the OS down every 10 minutes it will be Microsoft who you will be complaining too.

Microsoft made a good decision not to include 'potentially bad' drivers to ship with their OS.

NVidia made a business decision not to supply drivers to MS for the WinXP release because as far as they are concerned that just means more support for 'dead products'.

MS are not in the business of writing drivers for other companies.

Yes the blame is totally NVidia's, there is no two ways about it, but if you were the CEO of a company would you:

 

Attempt to fully support a product you probably don't know 100%, potentially cause yourself more support work from both MS and customers and also not see users upgrade their product.

Or

Fully drop all support on these 'dead products' concentrate totally on your core business and know that for every 1 3DFX owner who doesn't buy an NVidia card, there will be 2 that do?

[Seldzar 0]

Where do you get this nvidia supporting crap from?

 

This is how easy it is:

 

Ms "hey, nvidia,can you pass us the source code for the v3/4/5 series so we can fix a few minor issues with our winxp whql drivers?"

 

Nvidia "Sure here ya go(passes over source code)"

 

MS "Thanks! Millions of customers will be happy now."

 

Nvidia "Anythign else you need from us?"

 

Ms "No the source code was all we needed, thanks again."

 

Wow that was a whole lot of support on nvidia's side.

 

The entire point is it would not have cost anything for nvidia to pass the code over to MS so that millions of potential nvidia customers would be happy and not harbor angst toward them for not being the great company it could be.

[OLEerror 0]

Well, just means I'll have to go out and buy another ATI card to replace the Voodoo3 3000 in my second machine. This is actually incentive not to purchase an nVidia product. It shows how they will probably begin handling their own older cards.

[EFA11 0]

Quote:

The entire point is it would not have cost anything for nvidia to pass the code over to MS so that millions of potential nvidia customers would be happy and not harbor angst toward them for not being the great company it could be.

Cost is not the issue, 3dfx had signed NDA's to several other companies for parts of 3dfx driver source code. 3dfx didnt not own all of the copyrights to the code. NVIDIA can not release the source without permissions from the other companies. That is why the source was and will be never available to anyone. This was explained to me by a 3dfx driver developer a while back.


NVIDIA ownes the source but not all the copyrights to the code in it. If they were to "pass the code" they would be guilty of copyright infringement and end up in "legal hot water".

[Brian Frank 0]

Just because Nvidia wont produce the drivers doesn't mean drivers wont be put out. There is this Voodoo Files CA, and they have newer drivers...however, that's still no guarantee that they work.

I like 3dfx cards, but there's no sense in using a piece of hardware that doesnt have drivers for it in a particular OS. Yes, this does suck, but the V4 is just a V3 with 32MB of ram instead of 16.

A GF2 MX is a solid card, and with the excellent driver for all of Nvidia's chips, Nvidia is the way to go---something ATI could take a cue from. I refuse to buy an ATI card until they put out drivers that don't shame the card---and I really hope they do, for the sake of competition.

[SHS 0]

BladeRunner You rigth they not in the business of writing drivers for other companies but sometime MS dose write drivers for hardware for there OS if MS can get there hands on the source code for the hardware, by the way MS is doing the Aureal's Vortex drv and I can proved this to you and we have thank Creative Labs for this click here to see.

Have you ever look at printers list ? some the printers are very old

guest who writing the drivers ? MS being min of thoses companies die min moons ago they Modem & NIC drivers to.

MS has done has done a lot drv unofficial.

If you try to ask MS do any drv for any hardware you get MS dosen't write drivers for hardware official.

[Seldzar 0]

OLEerror, now that is a good arguement for not providing the source and one I can agree with but still you have to admit, ms could have still provided the bare 2d functionality in the drivers, simply disable anything else and give a compatability warning.

 

But oh well the win2k drivers work fine for 2d and thats all I need for my v3.

[Intlharvester 0]

Note that Nvidia has nothing to do with Voodoo support and drivers.

 

See http://firingsquad.gamers.com/features/nvidia1215/

 

"FiringSquad: Will NVIDIA continue driver support for 3dfx's Voodoo 3,4,5 line?

 

We're not purchasing 3dfx's current product line. We're only purchasing 3dfx's core assets. Support of 3dfx's current products will remain with 3dfx."

 

Nvidia basically paid 3dfx to stop producing new cards. They did not purchase 3dfx.

[SHS 0]

EFA11 that is wrong I had min talk with Keith Galocy who use to be 3dfx Interactive, Developer Manager and I min reply from Andrew Fear I can sure part of what your say is wrong.

Only one card I know that would be ture a Voodoo Rush the 2D was made by a diff a companies.

 

Intlharvester what FiringSquad is really saying is basically Nvidia purchasing all of 3dfx's core assets that also menan the voodoo drivers to the card as well.

[Intlharvester 0]

SHS - I don't get how you read that. Nvidia (not FiringSquad) says right out that they are not responsible for providing support for Voodoo. Drivers being a part of support.

 

"Core Assets" probably is patents and the like, plus golden parachutes for 3dfx executives (but not the engineers!)

[clutch 1]

I have to agree with Intlharvester, since I read about that a while ago (hence my option "A", since I don't feel that drivers are the responsibility of nVidia at all). The company bought out a competitor that was run poorly, and can now reap those benefits. They are not going to waste their time coding for hardware that they didn't purchase. Didn't nVidia pass on all the existing cards that were in inventory? If so, why bother supporting them? How many cards did 3DFX actually sell anyway? nVidia never claimed they would support these cards, so I don't see what the problem is. Hell, even the WickedGL mini-driver is starting to have a fee charged for it. There is no money in supporting 3DFX, so why bother? If MS and nVidia were here to make the world a better place and not make money, you would see ".ORG" and not ".COM" in their addresses.

[PISSED OFF 0]

so i guess i will have to buy a new video card really soon

dam

[EFA11 0]

Quote:

EFA11 that is wrong I had min talk with Keith Galocy who use to be 3dfx Interactive, Developer Manager and I min reply from Andrew Fear I can sure part of what your say is wrong.
Only one card I know that would be ture a Voodoo Rush the 2D was made by a diff a companies.

The correspondences I had were after the ex-3dfx guys released the last couple sets of drivers. The topic was V3/V5 driver source code, and the above post is what I was told during discussions about the source code being open sourced. Either way, I fail to see any official driver support being offered from 3dfx or NVIDIA anyway.

There is a 3rd party that is working on its own drivers for Voodoo cards, Kendall Bennett (SciTech Software - Director of Engineering) has confirmed they are working towards making in-house drivers "from scratch", when he contacted me looking for information. This has yet to be completed (maybe yet to be started). This could lead the way to XP Driver support (just guessing here, I'm not sure what OS's they would offer these drivers for) if they do complete their goals.

[SHS 0]

EFA11 dose SuperHighSpeed ring any bells I start that topic "V3/V5 driver source code" I did miss a few of reply been the page took a walk about.

SciTech most like be a universal driver for Win9x OS but If Kendall (SciTech Software) is really get a round Win2k/XP support now that would be something but most like lee will not have much support but still good any how.

The point of this topic was to get 6mos or 1yrs more worth out the Voodoo4/5 drv at lease full support for dircetx with in WinXP before get a new card let say something NV3 after all it should come with both 3dfx & nVidia technology and more advanced features and hope lee real good 2D core and I hope there be some kind glide support after all with out it 100's of game will run without glide been there glide spec games only you and I both know the game dev are not going rewrite the game engine nor give out the source code so other can fix it.

nVidia need to lean to kiss a little a@@ here after it what going make sale go up in the place win you take in to count the sheer number of Voodoo own out there min of them will have to rebuild or even buy a whole new system just to support a new video due to the new AGP Bus spec unless they go with something eles like KyroII which work on the older AGP bus I beat you think why not PCI why it is not very good option I think unlee you own OEM system that didn't come with AGP bus like min of HP,Dell,Gateway,Compaq,IBM.

Most you don't but VIA kiss a little a@@ on the Savage2000 drivers.

So you what there trying to do is by killing off Voodoo drv in WinXP they think they going to get more sale out of it well that not going happing now in stead of kiss a little a@@ here it going backfrie on them.

Don't get me wrong nVidia make a fair lee good 3D chipset but there 2D su@k even ATI 2D is better then they card is.

Is this efa11 or nuangel ?.

[SHS 0]

Just add more iceing to the cake this from http://www.voodoosource.net

Look at the front page scoll down in tell you see WinXP 3dfx Support

 

Update: Big wet one goes out to Craig Lisowski for firing me an excerpt from an email with one of the developers from Metabyte. I will let it speak for itself.

I dont suppose there's any chance of Wicked3D producing a full set of drivers [D3D too] for 3dfx cards?

 

Craig,

 

Probably not. nVidia has the right to most of 3dfx's Intelectual Property now, including the DirectX drivers' source code.

 

Your Wicked3D product has been shipped.

 

Sincerely,

 

Jerry Betti,

 

Quality Assurance Spe[censored]t,

 

Metabyte, Inc

[EddiE314 0]

NVidia has never screwed me over in anyway, there are always drivers for any OS, the cARDs never go bad, (still got the good 'ol TNT in the other computer), whereas 3dfx cards quality (in my opinion) started to deteriorate when 3dfx started only allowing STB to manufacture them. They had excellent cards when other companies made them, i used to have 2 voodoo2 pci's running SLIwith a sh1tty onboard vid card. 3dfx screwed themselves. who really cares about a 3dfx card? most people use NVidia cards anyway because ever since the TNT2, they have been the superior card. DIE 3DFX!

[CM 1]

That are bad new for my Voodoo 5 5500

 

It's time to get a GeForce 3

[SHS 0]

Or wait out for a GeForce 4:D:p

[clutch 1]

Sure beats waiting around for more Voodoo drivers...

 

[CUViper 0]

Quote:

It shows how they will probably begin handling their own older cards.

Except that with their Unified driver model, the old cards will always have the same OS support as the new cards...

[SHS 0]

clutch that only a few mos away 3 to 6mos at must I live in tell then.

[sapiens74 0]

I can't see how anyone expects Nvidia to support a company they bought that went outta business. They write drivers for thier technology not 3dfx's. And they have always supported thier old cards even back to the TNT.

 

 

You can pick up a Radeon or A Geforce2 Pro for under 130 bucks. Wait till Xp comes out then see, if so upgrade or stick to 2000 till you do.

 

 

 

My 2 Cents