I just some bad news about 3dfx and WindowsXP

[arioch 0]

Quote:

I am an IMO, domain admin, and computer spe[censored]t, and I have trouble with Linux. Make my life a little more simple and I'll use it, so will many others.

Linux is plenty simple enough (for being a server). It's just not very good for desktop usage.

[rapina 0]

1.- DONT USE WINE WITH HALF LIFE!!!

ask valve for a port, if u want to play it or boot into winblows

as a general rule, dont use wine for games at all!

online games...

2.- impossible to be faster win2k in anyway... NO WAY!

unless your GNU/linux setting are screw up somehow, u can make it crawl...

support from companies will only comes with "costumers", if they saw more people using linux, they will release more stuff for it, hardware drivers, software... hey Lucas Arts ILM is switching their winblows boxes to linux!

I saw it at zdnet...

 

3.- upgrade to mandrake 8.0

and dont forget to compile the kernel t suit your needs

and excuse my poor english

[rapina 0]

http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2761566,00.html

 

quote

--------------------------------

Originally posted by sapiens26

I am an IMO, domain admin, and computer spe[censored]t, and I have trouble with Linux. Make my life a little more simple and

I'll use it, so will many others.

 

---------------------------------

 

Linux is plenty simple enough (for being a server). It's just not very good for desktop usage.

 

 

--------------------------------

-------------------------------

------------------------------

 

and I am a guitar player!!!! i hardly know how to use this bbs!

I hardly know to speak and write your language!

BUT

I have found out that reading the howtos, mans, asking at IRC, is the

only way to make GNU/Linux fly! and learn lot of english hehe

otherwise is lacking and boring stuff , even unstable! if u dont keep

up to date stuf like KDE (I use BlackBox without gnome or kde taskbar

most of the time, os it starts in less than a sec.)

[arioch 0]

So I'm supposed to lock myself into that same sort of upgrade and pay cycle you said Microsoft was bad for?

 

... NO THANKS

 

In any case, since I use Debian, all I need do is stick the "unstable" tree into my /etc/apt/sources.list, type apt-get update, then type apt-get dist-upgrade ... voila, instant upgrade.

 

Plus, since Linux is supposed to be "free", companies don't actually make any money writing and releasing Linux software under GPL or BSD, and a variety of other licenses, since anybody can go out there and get it for free. (Let's not even get into the fact that if you ever paid taxes, a not insignificant portion of that money probably went into UNIX, Linux and/or BSD development of some kind)

 

While "free" software being free is good for you, temporarily, it can't possibly last.

 

Red Hat recently became the first "free software" company to actually turn a profit. That isn't from selling software or CDs, by the way, but by providing support for that software-for a price. And a rather hefty one, at that.

 

Red Hat aside, there are many "free software" companies out there that are floudering. Witness the recent demise of Eazel. And VA Linux cutting its hardware production side (which also is its profitable side -- so wtf, heh). The rest of them are subsidized by other, bigger companies, which in turn makes their money off of consumers-- again, people like you and me.

 

And as for documentation ... lets see you find a HOWTO for devfsd, or an up-to-date framebuffer console document. Both issues I had to overcome purely through help from people on IRC when I was recompiling my kernel (which I got the final size down to about 700K, by the way, and trimmed the external modules for down to an absolute minimum). This sort of external help costs nothing, and you can obtain basically the same kind of support from any windows-using community.

[clutch 1]

OK, I see the topic has wandered a bit. No problem.

 

As far as nVidia buying out 3DFX and not wanting to release source code (or what not). Since they don't plan on selling Voodoo5 cards (or any other Voodoo card for that matter) it would be stupid to release source code that they would have to be responsible for and support. That would not make them any money, and therefore not a good business decision.

 

As far as owning/not owning 3DFX cards and how that makes you an expert on the topic. I had a pair of 12MB V2s that I ran in SLI (diff manufacturers, mind you, and I had to get tweaked drivers so they would run together because 3DFX wouldn't allow for it in their releases) and I still feel that they were morons when it came to business sense. They bought STB, the company that arguably made the WORST cards in the business no matter what chip it ran on. Not to mention they could never seem to get their act together and release drivers for their own cards in a timely manner. They sold their souls to try and please their shareholders. You want to blame someone for not having support for your old card? Blame 3DFX.

 

As for Linux being a great gaming/server/network platform. It's a very efficient OS, one that I wish I knew more about. But I do know some things about it. It's a great server OS, but is not ready (at all) for the enterprise as a server OS or as a desktop OS. It's quite nice as an appliance server (firewall, DNS, etc) and for simple file sharing, but I wouldn't hinge much in the way of database usage on it. Now, part of that is due to my lack of knowledge in tweaking it, but I feel that many IT personnel are in the same boat as I am in that regard. As a desktop OS, it's poor. And that's not the fault of Linux, but rather application development for the OS. There isn't much out there, and of what is out there is just isn't as good as what's available for Windows. Period. Gaming is kind of a problem too, since almost everything released goes to Windows first, then gets considered for Apple/Linux as a port. If you like waiting, then Linux may be for you. In addition, Linux gets this great reputation for being SO fast and stable, because the people that use it KNOW a great deal about the OS and how to set it up optimally. If people knew as much about Windows as these same people did about Linux, you would not be hearing so many complaints about crashing/performance issues with Windows. Just wait until Linux becomes more and more mainstream, and you will see more "problems" with the OS, just like Windows. At that same time, hacking Linux will become more prevalent.

 

Have a nice day.

 

[DrLove 0]

Quote:

1.- DONT USE WINE WITH HALF LIFE!!!
ask valve for a port, if u want to play it or boot into winblows
as a general rule, dont use wine for games at all!
online games...

[/b]

Or don't use Wine at all.. geez.. what is the point of using linux then? Star office is pretty competent when being an Office Clone. Everything else you need to run in linux, it's there.

Quote:

2.- impossible to be faster win2k in anyway... NO WAY!
unless your GNU/linux setting are screw up somehow, u can make it crawl...

Excuse me. Nautilus is a Hog. You know who says so? The same people who brought you Ximian Gnome 1.4. And even though I know they are working to make it faster it really hogs down my systems which I think are pretty high end. Graphically speaking Linux still has a long way to go. I am not saying based on their opengl or gaming capabilities. I run maya a software package for doing computer animation and it runs fastest in my Windows 2000 Box, than in the linux box. Linux for me is the best webserver and the best render server. What is faster than the Windows 2000 box? My Octane2.

Quote:

support from companies will only comes with "costumers", if they saw more people using linux, they will release more stuff for it, hardware drivers, software... hey Lucas Arts ILM is switching their winblows boxes to linux! I saw it at zdnet...

Blah. Maya as I said before is a world class Computer Animation Package. Probably what they are doing is upgrading their windows renderer boxes to linux, which is the logical step. In linux the Maya Renderer which is the software they use to render scenes runs real fast because it is more or less a server soft. and in linux serv. software runs -fast-. Other than that I doubt they are upgrading their Octanes and O2's that run irix to go into linux. The other window boxes they use are for Photoshop and re-touching which is fine. Maya for linux has still a long way to go because linux still doesn't support important stuff like basic ATA 100 for example, and this makes some software run slow. But I know in time they will make it better.

3.- upgrade to mandrake 8.0 and dont forget to compile the kernel t suit your needs and excuse my poor english

I did and you know what? All the beautiful eye candy and ease of install don't cut it. It lasted a week before I took it down and went for Red Hat 7.1 which is the OS finally sitting in my Linux-Box. I run several servers on my boxes and they didn't compile really well. I know.. Linux is linux. But the distributions are so many. I wish that Linux had two versions.. not 7... It's like you have redhat distro, mandrake, suse, debian... Jeez.. It's complicated enough with one distro. It's a nightmare.. With windows it's becoming a nightmare.. windows 98, se, me.. argh.. For that alone I can't wait till XP goes out so that the dreaded 9x ends up dead like it's great grandparent Win 3.1.

Jeez I just woke up.. I need coffee..

-

[rapina 0]

I agree, don't use wine...

I thought that was my point...

Nautilus? what's that? use this instead...

create a file called .xinitrc in your home dir...

write this

 

xset +dpms

exec blackbox

 

thats what I meant in the first place!

blackbox is faster and i dont have ximian installed at all? just the

libs to run gnome apps (some)

and good bye whatever app u where babbling!

 

gnome sux, KDE 2.1.1 and up is waaaay lot better, but not fast...

 

now Mr DrLove is talking about a workstation or something, I'm talking

about games, xchat, e-mail and 3dfx- nvidia stuff... GAMES

as a desktop... simple average joey stuff

--------

quote

 

companies don't actually make any money writing and releasing Linux

software under GPL

-------

well loki isn't gpl, and they do make money... not much i guess.

so?

the profit most come from apps, not the kernel...

 

I'm not a pro FREE GRATIS ALL!!! WOW!! but ...

if BeOS were better I am a BeOS Zealot , if Win98 were better thing,

or mac os, or u name it... I'm its Zealot... why not promote something

that is well, done, almost bug free and.. well nice! heck.. plain and

simple!

 

and there is ATA 100 support in the kernel, just compile and ur

done... (2.4.5 and up)

one last note: framebuffer + nvidia in linux = crash. get rid of it

and use the latest drivers from nvidia

 

WinXP most die

is not a solution but the problem it self

un ethical people shouldn't get rich that easy, and give us that type of

junk...

please open ur mind...

only WE can make it grow...

 

heck those howtos man pages and all those doc's IRC etc etc... are up

to date in English

and from my point of view, gamers that doesn't like Linux are gamers

that doesn't like to read at all...

 

at this point I think that all of us agree that M$ is extremely

superior to the whole Linux apps community... we can make that change...

for games.... not Maya stuff, not some esoteric corporate stuff but

games, at least for that...

come on... make a 3 gig partition for Linux!

have seen?

 

www.neverwinternights.com

www.bioware.com

 

read the faq

u will find a nice surprise!

 

 

(Nautilus... bleh....)

[arioch 0]

Who said I was using rivafb? I use vesafb for all my fb console needs... and if I were ever to break down and use the ugly kludge they call the NVidia linux drivers, vesafb at least doesn't have any problems.

 

I know my stuff, and knowing my stuff I stay the fsck away from X.

[Kermy 0]

About this Linux vs Windows debate, I was just reading all the posts, especially the ones on Linux. I've been using a computer for about 10 years and after reading the posts I feel like an idiot about Linux. I mean Linux is about 5 years behind on becoming a consumer os. You think a typical family would know how to compile something out of the box? You think they would know how to recompile the kernel to their liking? No, they'll be looking for an exe to run.

 

The only reason I would run Linux is to either run a server for a game, or to become truly "techy" and brag about me running Linux. The Linux community needs to get some better inspiration. Yea it might be a good/stable os but for 90% of the consumer market it's a pos that nobody in their right mind would run unless you have 6 - 12 months to master it.

[CyberDoc999 0]

WindowsXP RC1 has Voodoo3,4,5 drivers

just use the windows update icon!

[rapina 0]

ok ok ok ...

I give up...

I hate to death rethoric

my first statement was quite simple:

if u are a 3dfx user, a true gamer that enjoy tweaking your PC... u should install Linux, and step by step lernig how to improve it more and more, something kinda similar (very slightly) to the things u do in windows, but without the limitations it has...

trouble is that there isn't as much games as it should be... been as fast and stable as it is right now... the reason, is in my previous post...

Quote:

You think a typical family would know how to compile something out of

the box?

--------------

see? isn't rethoric annoying?

 

hehe, dude... that why I'm talking about mandrake not Slackware or

whatever

and a typical family wont feel the need for speed as gamer

 

Kermy, I'm using Linux since February... and I was thinking EXACTLY the same way... the same words and everything, is just a matter of give it a shot. don't let people to wash ur brain, everybody speak their personal experience, far from been the average. and this is no brainier:

download

burn the iso

read the readme's

www.linuxnewbie.org

install it.

THEN make ur statement

and I want to see you buy it WinXP once you have mandrake in a 3 or 4

gig partition in your hard dirve!! hehe

 

mandrake 8.0 can be used for an experienced user in MS-DOS win95, any

"family" that has a PC and not really use it much... can easy screw up

a DOS install. hehhe and that happen quite often

 

remmember the 3dfx vs nvidia flame wars?

this is different, you can Install for free Linux and compare in your

own gaming rig! but it was difficult to buy both products a rivaTNT

and a Voodoo2 sli, and I remember that there was a lot of BS all over

the place, all over, and you guys still trust people that trash

something instead of trying for your self? come on!

I use win98, I haven't seen the BSOD since a long time ago, and is

rare, but check how it behaves KDE 2.1.1 or Blackbox for your self!

 

a hint, if sombody tell u that Nautilos or Nautiless or what ever is

slow, that just BS! Nautilos is just a app! not GNU/Linux it self!

is something to avoid! personaly i dont use gnome related stuff, never

liked, pure KDE loving here

 

WindowsXP RC1 has Voodoo3,4,5 drivers

just use the windows update icon!

 

but in linux are UPDATED!

but in linux are UPDATED!

[arioch 0]

That's the very point isn't it?

 

Linux just doesn't cut it for me as a desktop OS.

 

I'll be one of the first in line to buy a copy of Windows XP, and I run a Linux computer!

[rapina 0]

thats why we should be using less M$ junk, and start using Linux, so it will rock as a desktop OS(it does but... oh, well), besides, Linux is inferior to freeBSD as a server crap, if u really knew about servers, u should be using freeBSD not Linux...

(hint hint)

and not feeding that little p*** called Bill Gates..

hum...

as I desktop, just look at the cons (pros are huge to mention)

1.- not enough recording suites for guitar player like me, the ones that exist are too limited-ed

2.- winamp is better than xmms or freeamp

3.- lack of games (sigh)

4.- Netscape.. well, you know it,

6.- hardwere manufacturer support, if they knew we are using it...

 

and if you aren't a PC gamer, or a lazy PC gamer, you may add a bunch more.

[clutch 1]

Quote:

thats why we should be using less M$ junk, and start using Linux, so it will rock as a desktop OS(it does but... oh, well), besides, Linux is inferior to freeBSD as a server crap, if u really knew about servers, u should be using freeBSD not Linux...

Or, just run Solaris 8 since it's free as well. Most people looking for free stuff find Linux to be fine. As a desktop OS for the enterprise, it doesn't cut it yet. Admins don't have the time to retrain every user just to use the OS, let alone the applications that would perform differently on it. I use NT and Win2K, and I don't have any reason to look at Linux/Solaris/FreeBSD/etc. for a long time to come in my company.

[Anon-65e40e4a71 0]

now now guys, its only a video card lets not argue

 

Is it possible for someone to kindly extract the Voodoo5's drivers from XP and email me them? I wish to have a look at them.

 

Thank You

[borgzilla 0]

hehe clutch how wrong u r

 

voodoos are supported by XP after all

 

go and check live update

 

oh u r an nvidiot u can't see them.

[clutch 1]

Quote:

hehe clutch how wrong u r

voodoos are supported by XP after all

go and check live update

oh u r an nvidiot u can't see them.

How wrong I am? About what? That XP doesn't support the Voodoo series cards? I never stated that it didn't, only that nVidia shouldn't waste their time on a card that doesn't make them any money. So, why don't you tell me what EXACTLY I am wrong about.

[Anon-65e40e4a71 0]

Stop fighting guys ;(

[Gemfire James 0]

no doubt, just use or agree with whatever you believe, no reason to argue about it to get others to join you in the war.

[Anon-65e40e4a71 0]

Has anyone got the files?

 

Thanks

[clutch 1]

Who's fighting? If someone tells me I'm wrong about something, I would just like them to be clear about what it is.

[Brian Frank 0]

Right on with clutch. What is he wrong about exactly? I like 3dfx, and it does suck that they really don't exist any longer, but does that mean someone is wrong for stating the harsh reality.

I do think it would be great for nVidia to at least support the voodoo's through XP at least, as those who have a V4/5 are gonna get screwed over fast if they go to XP, as Maxtor still provides support for Quantum hard drives, even though they bought them out.

Of course, since 3dfx is dead, I'll go with nVidia, because they have great drivers, unlike ATI--who can't write drivers to save there sorry @ss, much less there cards.

I would like to see the Kyro 3 come out and give nVidia a run for it's money, because I don't want graphzilla owning any market. Look at what competition has done in the CPU arena and tell me were not all better off than before.

I don't like the fact that 3dfx cards are being dropped from XP, but there's nothing, other than plead or grovel to Nvidia to make drivers, that can be done about it.

Life sucks sometimes, get used to it.

[clutch 1]

The Kyro is a good idea, it's just that tile-based rendering doesn't lend itself too well to games that were not designed for it. Matrox had this cool little add-on card that would run next to your video card (Mystique? I can't remember it's been so long ) and was based on the same technology developed by NEC as the Kyro. Evidentally, it ran GLQuake really well, and was generally a good little card. Pretty cheap too, around $99 US for it and would work with just about anything. ATI's Radeon runs with a similar quasi-tile rendering scheme to speed up processing that I hope they stick with a polish up some more. I was really hoping Matrox would come out the gate screaming with another gaming card, but that has never really been their bag anyway.

[Brian Frank 0]

Yeah, I heard Matrox stepping away from gaming indefinitely, but do plan to return in the future.

I just hope that there is some good competition for Nvidia, and if ATI could put out drivers that would make their cards shine, that would be excellent. Too bad they're killing the Radeon with their drivers.

The Kyro 3 is supposed to add hardware T&L to the Kyro II as the main thing. That could be a major improvement, even if it can't stomp the GF3, adding that, and being cheaper, should help it gain some ground.

From what I've seen, the Kyro-based cards are the best bet against the GF's, unless ATI learns how to write drivers to maximize their chips/cards.

[EddiE314 0]

i've used Linux....quite alot infact, but it lacks 3rd party support, its too painstaking to teach people to use it, u have to f*uck with it alot depending on the machine, need i continue? I like Linux, but as a a weekend hobby, if you have the time to f*uck with your computer ALL OF THE TIME, then yea, you should use linux.......right after you get off your a.ss and get a job, i like the fact that with WinXP, i can install, crack, and use it. rather than, f*uck with, f*uck with, and f*uck with some more. get the picture?