Disabling Product Activation

[Bursar 0]

The current arguments seem to be related to people wanting to try the software before they buy it. Fair enough, I can understand that. Do you know that MS offers a fully functioning 120 day evaluation copy of most of the their products? This will no doubt include XP when it is released.

 

You can then have 3 months to decide on whether the OS is the right one for you or not. If it is, then go out and buy it. If not, delete it and re-install your previous OS.

 

I know different companies have different stances on demo/trial software, but MS seem fairly reasonable about it, and we were meant to be discussing their software.

[EddiE314 0]

yea, and you gotta pay for that too!!!! w4r3z costs nothing.

[Bursar 0]

So your basic argument is:

 

I want software, don't wanna pay for it.

 

No wonder companies have to keep coming up with new ways to try and protect their software.

[BladeRunner 0]

Ummm, your a student.

MS offer student editions of all MS products for somewhere in the region of 50-60% off the retail versions.

 

Yes, you can 'Test Drive' the product, that is what the 120 day evaluation copy will be for, which will be released at around the same time as the OEM versions of the OS.

These are usually free (I had access to hundreds of the Win2k ones and not a single one cost me a penny).

 

For gods sake, how many of you actually know how PA actually works?

I keep on seeing the same old crap, why should I be limited on the amount of hardware upgrades I make.....

You wont be, if you re-install your OS every month then you'll never activate it anyway.

Simple hardware changes do not trigger re-activation (From personal tests, not the crap printed on CNET, I have replaced a MB, Upgraded RAM, Replaced Video card and installed CD-RW drive all in one go without triggering activation).

In addition it's a timed issue, so any hardware changes made within a certain amount of time (no matter how drastic) don't trigger re-activation.

 

Going back to the post attempting to tear apart my, certainly in my eyes rather spot on, rather too close for comfort for some people, car analogy:

No, because if I can't afford the Dodge Viper, why should I feel that I deserve it?

If I haven't got the money then I wouldn't even think about owning it because, "copying it" is theft, why would I want to be a criminal?

I can't afford a new DVD player, so I can go into a high-street store and just take one right?

Why do you feel that you should be able to own something that you can't afford to buy, your bordering on communism here.

 

I don't understand how you can justify theft.

If you justify the theft of software and Intellectual Property why does it have to end there?

There is no difference in theft, theft is theft, if it's a piece of software or a car from a showroom forecourt you are still taking something that doesn't belong to you something you have no rights to take.

 

Going back even further in the thread, in the past I've never asked anybody "So, is that software legit?" it hasn't mattered.

However I can't believe that the mods of what is considered by a lot of people to be a professional board allow discussion on hacking, warze and criminal activities - I know of no other baord where messages like that would be allowed to stand (When I say no other board I mean of the supposed standard of this one).

The mods allow discussion of:

 

Hacking OS's

Hacking Office Products

In some cases actually advocating such activities.

In the past, such postings as "How do I get Quake 3 to run on Win2k Advanced Server" have obviously been posted by thieves (Waits for the follow up replies, but if you're running Win2k AS it's either as a serious server or stolen for home use).

Other posts along the lines of "Installed Office2k SR2 and now it wont function" again the posts in question were from thieves as that's what SR2 was designed to do - de-activate known compromised keys & hacks.

 

Then, half of you sit back and tell us how nasty MS are, and how evil they are, and how the .net idea and subscription based software is so very bad.

Why?

Because suddenly you'll find that you actually have to pay for something?

Even if it cost an arm and a leg to rent the next OS all you'd be doing (over the fullness of time) would be paying for the software you've all stolen in the past.

[clutch 1]

As a "mod", I am more concerned with people flaming each other for no reason. That's it. As for filtering through the hacking and w4rez posts, I don't see that as an issue. Sure, I was irritated by seeing people asking "How do I get my Win2K Adv Server to host Counter-Strike?" when it was clearly obvious that they didn't get it legally. But here's the issue; who cares? Some of the people that *clearly* advocate piracy have also been helpful to others on this board, and I see no reason to censor their discussions. Am I to say "Hey, there is no way that you could have 2 legally licensed copies of Win2K Adv Server in your trailer! Are you running a meth lab to cover the costs of your licensing? If not, then we don't want to hear from you, no matter what you have to say!" when someone is responding to a question about IIS? That seems somewhat unrealistic, and time consuming. How are we to determine who is legit and who isn't?

 

I realize that the topic "Disabling Product Activation" can be considered a clear and intentional request for stealing software. But I consider it a valid topic, since product activation of any type is very irritating. In our office, we have an open licensing agreement, which gives us a CD Key for OfficeXP that never needs activation. However, many people who do have this software legally do not have that option, and like me do not feel that they should go to MS asking "Mother may I?" to get the software activated again. Once I feel that Office XP is stable, I intend to disable PA on my home system, even though I have a legal copy. The whole concept just flat pi$$es me off to no end, and I don't feel that I am alone.

 

One more thing, there seems to be some clear confusion as to who is losing money with software piracy in general. Well, it would have to be anybody who wrote and/or published the software as the software is being used without it being payed for. Now, here's the catch. You see these people that have Win2K Adv Server in here right? And you know damned well the vast majority of them could not have it legally. However, they never could anyway, so it's a net loss of zero to the software owners. Yet, many of these same people wind up learning from the product, and get entry level positions at companies working with it even more (or they request the software and their respective companies purchase it, hence a new sale). That's why I don't really care that much about it. Same thing with MP3s. I have downloaded from bear-share mp3s that I did not have the license for, so I could find a specific song. Once I did, I would pick up the CD if I liked it. Otherwise, the track is just taking up space on my harddrive that I could be using for pirated software until my meth lab starts getting profitable again...

[BladeRunner 0]

*Sigh*

Then I guess I can't hold as much reagard for the site as I once did or as I do for others.

 

I know that will mean nothing to you, to be honest you wont care, what's one person's opinion against the face of many others?

 

There is a time and a place for discussing warze & the theft of computer software and I really don't see how it should be on a professional site.

Sure, a general discussion on the subject usually goes down well, but to not only advocate the theft of software but to allow posts that are an obvious discussion of hacking/warze is just so really very sad.

 

I'm afraid your "Lets justify the theft of software by saying nobody is loosing any money" is a very typical response.

That isn't the point, and you all know it.

The statement I keep using and that nobody can counter is "It doesn't matter if nobody is loosing money, it doesn't matter if it's a 'faceless' corporation your stealing from, the simply fact is - Why do people feel that they have every right to own something they haven't paid for?"

 

I shall continue to preach what I practice and I know it will fall mainly on deaf ears.

However, in 12-18 months time, once subscription based OS's and Office Products are normal and you are all posting how this 'Suxs' & 'How stupid it all is' I'll then be able to remind you that you are part of why it happened.

[clutch 1]

You just don't get it, do you? Subscription-based software has been out and over-ridden for quite a long time now, and those publishers are only kidding themselves as to its ability to counter true piracy (not just "casual copying"). Also, as there may be a time and a place for discussing w4rez and general computer crap (I always thought this place was fine, but I didn't realize it was such a hang up for you), as there is too a time and place for being a martyr to the "cause". A frankly, a message board that has post from persons talking about game and hardware compatibility interlaced with topics of marijuana usage doesn't seem to be it.

 

Most people have been quite cordial to each other, and very informative. But dude, stop harshing the buzz.

[gekko56 0]

To me it seems like I am claiming backpay from microsoft for Beta testing thier software but they don't actually pay me to do it.

Our feedback contributes to the refinement of thier product, often leading to increased sales due to HAPPIER consumers.

We all remember the Shutdown bug in 98SE.

With all the possible PC configurations in the world Beta testing becomes increasingly important but I still have to pay for it. Yes I did pay for my RC1 preview cd but hate the PA.

In Australia lots of people STILL don't have internet access and to be put on hold by Microsoft whilst incurring long distance call charges, just to activate windows is wrong.

In effect they are encouraging the cracking of thier product.

I think they are simply too arrogant to back down.

 

As for this vile,shameful message board run by thieving moderators I say this - I thought America was all about Freedom of Speech......Correct me if I am wrong.

[Xiven 0]

A few points I'd like to raise:

 

Quote:

to allow posts that are an obvious discussion of hacking/warze is just so really very sad

 

Okay, so what was this whole post about exactly? Let's see...

 

Quote:

How can I remove it from Startup I mean , so that it doesn't remind me of activating again and again.

 

So what he wants is to remove the REMINDERS that pop up when you start up telling you to activate, not remove the requirement to activate altogether. Okay, but why not just activate it? Well take this quote from yourself:

 

Quote:

I keep on seeing the same old crap, why should I be limited on the amount of hardware upgrades I make.....

You wont be, if you re-install your OS every month then you'll never activate it anyway

 

So you are suggesting here that to stop yourself being limited in the number of hardware upgrades you can do that you don't activate your copy of Windows. Doing this results in pop-up reminders telling you to activate which is what this whole thread was about (the circle is now complete ). To the best of my knowledge there's nothing illegal or immoral or license-agreement breaking about the topic of this thread. True, some of the later discussion is somewhat less than legal but the point is this thread had a genuine purpose for someone with a genuine problem with a genuine Microsoft product (anyone want to try fitting the word genuine more times into a sentence? )

 

Quote:

MS offer student editions of all MS products for somewhere in the region of 50-60% off the retail versions

 

And how many students actually KNOW about this? They don't exactly advertise the fact do they? Go to your local PCWorld to buy a copy of Windows and they don't say "oh, you're a student so this'll cost only 40% of the marked price". You have to get it direct from Microsoft AFAIK and most students that I know don't know a damn thing about it. I only found out a few months ago when someone mentioned it on these boards.

 

Quote:

Do you know that MS offers a fully functioning 120 day evaluation copy of most of the their products?

 

Yes, and yes they DO charge you money to try most of these 'demos'. Non-refundable I might add, just like everything else. Try before you buy is good, but I'd rather not have to pay to try in the first place.

 

Of course if it wasn't for the fact the MS products are so grossly overpriced, most of us wouldn't even be having this discussion.

[BladeRunner 0]

Well it's the last post I'm going to put into the thread.

So, now will be the time for you to get the "final word" in, no matter what else is said in it I simply shall not post.

I know that'll make a lot of ya happy anyway, because lets be honest, nobody likes to be told that what they are doing or advocating is wrong.

So, how shall I end my last post into this thread?

Well, I could turn around and call you all a bunch of thieves, but that's not the way of doing it and would be all rather pathetic.

 

I shall just end it another way.

Carry on the way you are, however a lot of you seem to accept morals and the "laws of the land" when it suits you - selective choice of what to obey and what not to.

I'm sure if any of you woke up one morning to find your beloved car missing from your drive you'd have something to say about thieves in general, but for some reason you don't categorise the two as the same - in my book theft is theft.

I also urge you all to continue to "justify" what you are doing, the "Nobody looses money" & "But it's too expensive to buy" and all of that, keep on justifying it to yourself - doesn't seem so bad then eh?

You know, when I was a kid, I remember copying some code for an old Sinclair ZX81 via an audio tape so a friend of mine wouldn't have to pay the £5 to get a copy - then I grew out of it and stopped, maybe that will happen here too.

Then to really finish, some food for thought I guess.

Where do you think the original 'hack' of an OS etc comes from?

Remember there has to be a copy 0, where it all started etc.

Hacking of commercial software is big business, some people and some 'organisations' do it just for the money it will make them - in a lot of cases these are the same 'organisations' invloved in drugs, extortion & prostitution - sound a little far fetched?

Well it isn't.

It's all about supply & demand, as long as people want it then it will appear, but eventually it will be stopped.

If we look at certain types of ****ography from around the world, 95% of the world agrees it should be halted, and low & behold something gets done about it, prison sentances become larger for those dealing in it and, if the papers are to be believed, the actual trade in it has dropped some 75%.

The same will happen with piracy, it will be stopped.

 

So there ya go, I've finished with the thread, as I said at the top I wont post anything else in to it - you've won! Pirates are great, free commercial software for all!

 

Oh, and on a side note - The 120 day evaluation copies are free.

You just phone up MS, tell them you are interested in moving your home PC/workstations/servers over to whichever OS you want an evaluation for.

They then send you the CD's free of charge.

Actually, maybe I'm not being 100% truthfull, maybe you had to pay for postage, but you certainly weren't charged for the eval version - I don't think I would have paid for 4 copies (which is the number of Win2k Pro & Server ones I have).

[EddiE314 0]

Quote:

i am buying XP Pro eventually, when that time comes, i'll install and and crack it, i care nothing about WPA nor do i see a point in Activating it.

As i said on Page 2, i AM going to buy it, then i'm gonna activate it once then crack it for all of my other installs. Perhaps next time you should start at Page 1 and read every post

[Xiven 0]

If someone stole my car, sure I'd be pissed off.

If someone got a replicator and copied my car, I would be slightly annoyed that they didn't buy their own, but I'm sure I'd cope.

 

PS. I'm not advocating piracy here, I'm just pointing out that your analogy is very very wrong!

[DosFreak 2]

Quote:

Ummm, your a student.
MS offer student editions of all MS products for somewhere in the region of 50-60% off the retail versions.

Yes but ONLY if you are a student and only for personal use.

Quote:

For gods sake, how many of you actually know how PA actually works?
I keep on seeing the same old crap, why should I be limited on the amount of hardware upgrades I make.....
You wont be, if you re-install your OS every month then you'll never activate it anyway.
Simple hardware changes do not trigger re-activation (From personal tests, not the crap printed on CNET, I have replaced a MB, Upgraded RAM, Replaced Video card and installed CD-RW drive all in one go without triggering activation).
In addition it's a timed issue, so any hardware changes made within a certain amount of time (no matter how drastic) don't trigger re-activation.

What's so hard to understand about a person not liking something about a product? Just because company X makes product Y doesn't mean I have to like it.
If I never would have bought the product in the first place then obviously they are not losing ANY money. But I gain the knowledge of that software.
I know that it's good or not good.I can be 100% sure that the product that I have chosen is good or not. A person who does not go to these lengths would
at the most either listen around as to what's the "best" or they would read the latest mag. They wwould not check out the products themselees. Heck, I see it
every day when people ask me about software. "I heard this is the best...Have you heard of this peice of software I just bought it. Is it any good?"
Then of couse I say "NO! It sucks!. I've had it for months you should have borrowed it off of me you fool!"

Quote:

Going back to the post attempting to tear apart my, certainly in my eyes rather spot on, rather too close for comfort for some people, car analogy:
No, because if I can't afford the Dodge Viper, why should I feel that I deserve it?
If I haven't got the money then I wouldn't even think about owning it because, "copying it" is theft, why would I want to be a criminal?
I can't afford a new DVD player, so I can go into a high-street store and just take one right?
Why do you feel that you should be able to own something that you can't afford to buy, your bordering on communism here

Who saw that we feel that we deserve anything? To those of us who work in this profession we do not regard the software we download as "owning" it. We
KNOW that we don't OWN it. Duh. That's the whole point.

And your views of being a criminal are skewed. I suppose your one of the guys who if they had lived in ancient times would see nothing wrong with slavery
or ritual sacrifice since it wasn't against the "law".

For me at least downloading software is the assimilation of information. It helps me to perform my job better. As I've stated many times before in this
thread I DEFINETLY would not have the experience that I have today if I was unable to aquire software in an "illegal" fashion.

Quote:

I don't understand how you can justify theft.

What is theft?

Quote:

If you justify the theft of software and Intellectual Property why does it have to end there?
There is no difference in theft, theft is theft, if it's a piece of software or a car from a showroom forecourt you are still taking something that doesn't
belong to you something you have no rights to take.

Ah. There is no difference in murder, murder is murder. Your views are as black & White as a 1950's television set. Does your model have a sharpen
knob or is it even more out of focus?

Quote:

Going back even further in the thread, in the past I've never asked anybody "So, is that software legit?" it hasn't mattered.
However I can't believe that the mods of what is considered by a lot of people to be a professional board allow discussion on hacking, warze and criminal
activities - I know of no other baord where messages like that would be allowed to stand (When I say no other board I mean of the supposed standard
of this one).
The mods allow discussion of:

Hacking OS's
Hacking Office Products
In some cases actually advocating such activities.
In the past, such postings as "How do I get Quake 3 to run on Win2k Advanced Server" have obviously been posted by thieves
(Waits for the follow up replies, but if you're running Win2k AS it's either as a serious server or stolen for home use).
Other posts along the lines of "Installed Office2k SR2 and now it wont function" again the posts in question were from thieves
as that's what SR2 was designed to do - de-activate known compromised keys & hacks.

Then, half of you sit back and tell us how nasty MS are, and how evil they are, and how the .net idea and subscription based software is so very bad.
Why?
Because suddenly you'll find that you actually have to pay for something?
Even if it cost an arm and a leg to rent the next OS all you'd be doing (over the fullness of time) would be paying for the software you've all
stolen in the past.

In case you haven't noticed. THIS ENTIRE WEBSITE IS ABOUT HACKING NT! See that name www.ntcompatible.com . NTcompatible.com list compatibility of all
appplications/games/hardware on NT operating systems. Most of the fixes require "hacking" the os. If Microsoft did their job and made a product RIGHT then
there would be no reason for this website to exist but I guess as far as your concerned "hacking" the OS is wrong.

How does an intelligent discussion on hacking, *****, and "criminal" activities make this board unprofessional? If anything it makes it even more
Professional by bringing the subject into the light.

The subscription idea is bad in some ways because:
1. Software is buggy and always will be.
2. Control will be lost.
3. MS patches do break things...the service WILL go down.
4. Paying money for crap. Why?

[DosFreak 2]

Bladrunner after seeing the post you just posted....

 

 

RPG

 

Lawful Good - This is your basic goodie-two-shoes who always tries his/her hardest to do what's right and always obeys the law no matter how insignificant a law may be. These people could probably be viewed as having a "holier than thou" attitude whether they actually have one or not. BLADREUNNER

 

Neutral Good - This is your basic all-around good person who pretty much avoids trouble but doesn't make it his/her life goal to be perfect all the time.

 

Chaotic Good - This is an overall good person who is probably much more unpredictable than Neutral Good people and Lawful Good people. While he/she has a good heart, trouble and bad circumstances somehow seem to find them from time to time. But one clear asset that a Chaotic Good person would probably have is an ability to think or possibly deceive his/her way out of sticky situations.

 

Lawful Neutral - If you're Lawful Neutral, you might want to consider being a judge. Lawful Neutral people tend to be very neutral and objective when it comes to most matters and they also have a remarkable ability to resolve arguments and various disputes because of their objectivity and their basic understanding of what's right.

DOSFREAK...although Chaotic Neutral seem to apply

 

Neutral - This type of person would probably be one to just go with the flow and not really get involved in other people's problems and disputes. This might also be the kind of person who, when asked to make plans of some sort by a close friend or a significant other would probably say something like, "Whatever you want to do is fine with me." This person might be seen as laid-back or easy-going by some and apathetic by others.

 

Chaotic Neutral - This kind of person is probably one who doesn't take sides but who instead plays both sides to get whatever it is that he/she wants. This kind of person is probably as deviously manipulative as they come.

 

Lawful Evil - The phrase "honor among thieves" probably holds great meaning for this type of person. This person, while evil, has a code of honor by which he/she abides. An example of a Lawful Evil person might be a mafia leader.

 

Neutral Evil - This could be your basic thug or just an unfortunate soul who fell into a life of crime and can't seem to get out. Evil henchmen and common thieves might be classified as Neutral Evil.

 

Chaotic Evil - Sometimes psychotic and often unpredictable, a Chaotic Evil person could probably be anyone from a mass murderer to an evil dictator with plans for world domination.

[EddiE314 0]

Hmmm, just wondering what category I'm in.

 

-------

 

 

BTW, nice post with all of the quotes and replies, it SHOULD shut everyone up, but who knows.

[Brian Frank 0]

Quote:

The subscription idea is bad in some ways because:
1. Software is buggy and always will be.
2. Control will be lost.
3. MS patches do break things...the service WILL go down.
4. Paying money for crap. Why?

I agree, subscription is a bad idea for software. Not everything has to be a service. I don't know about you, but I certainly like to buy software and be done with it. I don't like having strings attached here. All what DosFreak said, too. It should be optional, or at least tested with ppl to see if it will sell. MS should NOT be telling the consumer what they will do and how they will do it.
On DosFreak's 3rd point: I've not ever used NT, but I heard that SP6 had some nasty flaw in it, even though MS quickly released SP6a. I didn't find out what that nasty flaw was, but sh.it happens in the line of work. We're all human, and on the first point, there will be some flaw, even if we don't notice it.

[EddiE314 0]

I hate SP's, i'd rather apply Hotfixes and use AppCompat Toolkits, the SP's always change things that work fine for me. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I'd much rather download a 300KB hotfix than a 100MB SP that's gonna update things i don't care about. In my eyes, all a SP does is display "Service Pack X" under System Properties and break things, exactly why was it that ZoneAlarm worked on Win2k fine, but after SP1 i couldn't use the net anymore?? I dunno either, i reinstalled Windows.

 

I can understand SP's for use on multiple Workstations that have different configs, but for the home user on a frickin 56k modem, a 100mb SP isn't too appealing considering the fact that it's not gonna do much for me and may have the potential to break things.

 

just my opinion, i may be wrong.

[anak1 0]

Why should I have to pay anything to evaluate a product? Do you have to pay for gas to test drive a car at a dealership?

 

Microsoft claims that this WPA will prevent piracy, and according to them, they "lose" billions of dollars due to piracy. Let's see if they aren't full of BS and release Windows XP full edition for $100, shall we? Everyone knows they will never do this, their entire piracy argument is absolute crap.

 

Hell, I have downloaded games before because the companies didn't offer a demo. Based on these downloads, I have gone out and actually bought the software, as have some of my friends based on the "pirated" software. I always delete the software afterwards. How is anyone losing in this situation?

 

When you buy a piece of software without evaluating, you are essentially telling a company "It's OK to release a a bug ridden product because once I buy it I'm stuck with it", and that is far worse than any form of piracy.

[Brian Frank 0]

If service packs are supposed to fix things, why didn't MS get it right in the first place? Personally, I haven't had issues with SP1 or 2, at least as far as I can tell. However, eddie is right about the 100MB SP updates: It is totally ridiculous to as a 56K modem user to download an update of that size. I have the luxury of DSL, but it's not the most expensive we could get, so we may not be crusing at the top speed, but even then, 100MB is still a big download no matter how you put it.

 

While I'm not justifying piracy, how much more does MS want? I'm not against them being a successful business, but it's not like their in danger of keeling over for lack of money. If MS released a $100 upgrade to XP Pro, I'd be happy, but, we have no reason to assume that will happen.

The prodcut activation feels like we're being mugged here, and like MS doesn't trust anybody. It feels like they're making all of us guilty for the few bad apples that copy and sell MS software to legitimate customers.

[anak1 0]

I completely agree with you Brian.

 

Not to beat these car analogies to death but,

 

What if you went out and bought a car, started driving it home and realized the spedometer didn't work? You go back to the dealership and the salesman says, "Yeah, that doesn't work right now, here, use this chalkboard and write down the speed you think you are going instead. We will fix the spedometer when we feel like it"

 

It's the EXACT same thing with bug ridden software. By evaluating software you are holding copanies responsible for releasing quality software, and when a company doesn't release a demo they obviously have something to hide.

[clutch 1]

Or, the salesperson would ask you to shut everything down, unplug the battery, and wait 10 minutes before trying again...

[Xiven 0]

No more car analogies! PLEASE!

 

Think of something original

[Atreyu 0]

BMWs are sweet cars.. and more than likely you won't have a problem with the speedometer when you buy one.

[EddiE314 0]

well, all i know is that it doesn't take 25-45 seconds to start my car up. LOL

[Brian Frank 0]

My dad works on BMW's...and now on Mercedes too.

Foriegn cars rule!

 

Your hard drive is a big a$$ trunk!