Machine restarts randomly and abruptly VERY FREQUENTLY. Plea

[shassouneh 0]

Hi All,

my machine seems to be restarting very frequently for no apparent reason. I have supplied the system specs below:

 

Operating System:

running both Windows 2000 and Windows XP (the problem occurs in both). Also running Linux Mandrake 8.1 (2.4.8-26)

 

System Configuration:

 

AMD Athlon Thunderbird 1.4GHZ on an ECS k55SA motherboard. 64MB Nvidia GeForce 2 MX 400 AGP 4x

256MB DDR RAM

hard drives:

Quantum Fireball 13.0GB 5400 rpm running NTFS (12.09GB formatted)

Quantum Fireball lct 30.0GB 7200rpm (27.9GB formatted. multiple partitions)

 

Note: I have disabled advanced power options in BOTH the BIOS and Windows 2000 and XP. The problem still occurs. Any idea/solutions?

[GTwannabe 0]

Maybe you've got a faulty RAM chip.

[shassouneh 0]

Yes, even though it IS a possibility, i don't think so really. I tested the RAM chips on 2 or 3 other machines and it works great. Also, It seesm that the crashes MAY be caused somehow by the OS. It never dies on me in Linux fro some reason.

Yes, it is a possibility, but I don't think that's the reason.

[kgeissler 0]

Overheating?

[shassouneh 0]

hmm, out of curiosity, what would overheating have to do with it? It MAY actually be overheating, but how would that make it restart? Also note: Linux doesn't seemto have that problem whenever i run it.

[shassouneh 0]

No not overclocking. Motherboard does not support overclocking anyways! I'll check out the Event logs and If i find something interesting or susicious I'll post it here.

[BladeRunner 0]

"hmm, out of curiosity, what would overheating have to do with it? It MAY actually be overheating, but how would that make it restart"

 

Unexplained reboots for no apparent reason is a classic symptom of a PC overheating.

The CPU gets too hot, system simply re-boots itself.

Not all systems simply freeze or slow down when they get too hot, most just re-boot.

If you were serious in your comment 'It MAY actually be overheating' then you might want to take a look at things, see if you can increase air flow, make sure the HSF is correctly making contact with the CPU core etc.

[shassouneh 0]

I see. I think it may be overheating actualy. I do NOT have a heat sink! All i have is a mall fan! Yes, I know you want to shoot me, but I'll look for a Heat Sink and a HUGE processor fan, as well as a system fan soon hopefully. right now college work is getting over my head. LOL

[kgeissler 0]

Get yourself some Arctic Silver as your thermal paste.

[shassouneh 0]

Sure will. One other problem is that the BIOS seems t reset itself every now and then. I have no idea why it does this. I decided to completely shut down the machine to allow its parts too cool off opnce I received your previous replies, and I started it up to check my mail today and that's what it did. It seems to do it every now and then, so I don't think I'm actually DOING anything to cause it. Any ideas?

[shassouneh 0]

Thanc for the info AlecStaar! I'm stunned. Aluminum heat sink it is. I need some help here guys. I have two issues I'm worried about

1.) the BIOS issue (mentioned above)

2.) Where can I get a decet aluminum heat sink and thermal paste online for a reasonable price? how do you set it u when it gets here? I have never done this kinda stuff before so some details would be grrrrrreat. Also, suppsoing i DO get a heat sink and thermal paste, THEN what?

3.) I read somewhere from a questionable* source that the Nvdia GeForce family of video cards seems notorious for rebooting the computer when Max Payne is being played at 32bit textures. How true is this? Note I said "questionable" source because it was a page online and I have no idea how credible it is. Here is the link to it, should you desire to check it out:

 

www.talonsoft.com/techsupport/gamehelp/maxpayne2.php

 

Note, again for reference, here is the system specs:

 

AMD AThlon Thunderbird 1.4GHZ running on an ECS K75SA

256 MB DDR RAM

Nvidia GeForce 2 MX 400 4x AGP (note above note about possibility of problems with GeForce cards)

two Quantum Fieball EIDE Ultra DMA/66 hard drives. One: 13.0GB (12.09GB formatted), the other is 30.0GB (27.9GB formatted). Partition table looks like this:

Hard Drive Number Partition Size File System

1 12.2GB (C: ) NTFS

1 5.33GB (D: ) NTFS

1 6.13GB (E: ) FAT32

1 62MB Linux Native (ext2)

1 128MB Linux Swap

1 3.49GB Linux Native (ext2)

2 12.1GB NTFS

[yakkob 0]

Just replace the motherboard battery. It sounds as if your old one is dying.

 

Don't worry, they are very cheap

[shassouneh 0]

Thanx AlecStaar for the info. I shall roll out a heat sink as soon as my new paycheck gets here (if ever). Thanx again.

Yakkoub, I guess the question is, are all batteries compatible? ALso, where can i get one online for a decent price? Note: I would try pricewatch, but good luck finding decent search results for "motherboard battery" LOL.

[BladeRunner 0]

You should be able to pick the batteries up at any electrical/hardware store - not necessarily a place that sells computers.

They are all really quite standard, just pop out the old one and take it with you to confirm voltages etc.

 

The post about aluminium Vs copper heatsinks follows the laws of thermal well

It is however worth noting that in a lot of the heatsink round-up's the copper heatsinks do perform better.

Copper might take longer to disipate the heat, but they can take more heat before the need to disipate.

The Thermalright SK6 for example quite often tops heatsink tests, pure copper and certainly cooled my PIII better than alything aluminium could do.

[shassouneh 0]

Well It seems like Copper is more efficient at absorbing more heat before dissipating it, wheras aluminum dissipates the heat almost immediately. The advantage I see in dissipating the heat more quickly is that less heat is "hanging around" the processor's area, even if it is for a few seconds. This may prove to be a breakthrough for reeeeally small cases like mine. I'm considering getting a bigger case, but right now finances are kinda tight, and a heat sink has priority over a case. Anyways. I would love to hear more from you about Copper vs Aluminum and such. It will help me make a better decision when i come to buy the heat sink. Thanx guys.

By the way AlecStaar, I checked out www.3dcool.com It looks like a nice site. they don't seem to have a section for "heat sinks" though. They have a nice-looking fan and all, but I'm still looking for their heat sink section.

 

Thanx agian guys, keep em coming.

[shassouneh 0]

AlecStarr, it looks like you misunderstood me. In my previous post I actually favored aluminum over copper by making mention of the fact that it dissipates heat away from the processor faster. Anyways, I am still open to suggestions.

Also, I did check 3dcool.com's CPU cooling section and they did not have "heat sinks". help me out here!

[BladeRunner 0]

Oh I couldn't agree with you more, Aluminium disipates heat a lot quicker than copper.

Copper is if you like a 'larger capacity' to heat, so takes more before it needs to disipate it.

I really don't think there is much in it when it comes to CPU cooling.

Sure in larger applications where thermal efficiency is really important, well that is where all the science really comes in to play.

When I had my PIII system I just couldn't find any aluminium heatsink that could give me nice cool temperatures.

Granted I didn't try them all, too expensive to play that game!

However when I purchased an SK6, removed the way too noisy delta fan and fitted a 60mm YS-Tech fan, used some Arctic Silver II and my temperatures took a noticeable drop, amazing I could say.

 

Heatsink/fans's are no longer the £5 off the shelf device and I think you really need to have a good read up on real-world tests.

Didn't Tom's Hardware do a 13 way round-up not so long ago?

[shassouneh 0]

OK folks. It looks like I've made up my mind. I think I'm gonna go with an aluminum heat sink (sorry BladeRunner). Right now I need to move off as much heat off the processor and fast as possible! You know i have a miniATX case, MEANING hot air tends to "hang around" there so a heat sink may help. I Also need a decent system fan. Any recommendations?

So noting that I will choose an Aluminum heat sink and a system fan what kinds/brands/setups would you guys recommend? Also Assume I have BOTH the heat sink and system fan here, how do i set them up? and what's the deal with "thermal paste"? Like I said I'm a newbie in this feild so some "dummy" details would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanx everyone for taking the time, effort and patience to help me out. i really do appreciate it!

[shassouneh 0]

Thanx again. I'll let you guys know as soon as I buy one. Right now I'm wating for that distant-looking paycheck, LOL.

[brainsoft 0]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is that Copper conducts heat better. Electricity was mentioned, but heat is transfered more quickly as well. That is the main reason for copper being pushed, it has a much higher thermal conductivity, I think 4x higher than copper. Gold and platinum are even more efficient, but can see the obvious problem there 8) $$$

 

Such is the logic in the heatsinks with the copper bottom. The copper spreads the heat away from the CPU and the alumminum then quickly dissipates it into the air! It's the best of both worlds. Don't sell copper short, it does have many advantages. Copper away from heat will cool better than aluminum directly on heat, but aluminum the same distance will cool faster. But the heat will be spread there more efficiently with copper! It's quite a cycle.

 

A Copper base with upward forks into the aluminum, and aluminum forks in the air, it's quite a marvellous design, not too expensive, because there isn't too much copper, and get's the best of both worlds.

 

Even if the heatsink is a pour conductor of heat, as Aluminum is compared to copper (4x), heat will always dissipate to an area of lower concentration. I don't care how hot your cpu is, it is still cooler than your cpu, as that's where the heat is being generated to start with.

 

If you think that the price of the copper heatsinks is mostly for profit, take a look at prices for common sized blocks of both Aluminum and Copper. Copper actually does cost a lot more, and being a harder metal also costs more to mill and work with.

 

Replace your bios battery to fix the bios reset problem, take it with you to any electronic store, or anywhere that has batteries, hardware stores like Canadian Tire have them too I believe.

 

Random restarts, could also be a voltage problem on the motherboard, as was the case with mine, though if yoour cpu isn't being cooled I'd place my money there. It could also be caused by an older BIOS. MAke sure you have the latest bios, that can often fix it.

 

And what kind of CPU are you trying to cool? If it's an older one then you don't need a massive anything, just a regular heatsink will stop it from over heating. Even without a fan, a heatsink making good contact would make a huge improvement, an easy thing to do if it's not being cooled at all atm.

[brainsoft 0]

I certainly am not buying a Copper heatsink, it's the cost for me, The rest doesn't matter. For regular usage either would work just as well. If you don't OC it won't make any noticable difference to system performance, and very little even if you do. To fill the roll that is needed here, Aluminum is definately the way to go. i just wanted to make sure that everyknew was aware of the heat conducting abilities of copper.

 

Quote:

I used to believe that too, this test & experts in metallurgy & electronics convinced me otherwise... as well as the tests I showed above from a reputable tester.

 

I'm obviously not going to argue with the metallurgy experts, but I do have a thing or two to say about our good friend Tom.

 

Everything you read is written with a bios, even newspapers, it is unavoidable. The sign of good reviewers and reports is their ability to withhold most of the bias in their articles. Tom often is unable to do that and I will never accept what he writes as unbiased.

 

For instance, Tom was biased against 3DFX. It appeared in every single one of his GeForce/Voodoo articles, and I know a few people that have based their believes of the cards at the time his writtings. At some point in the past, 3DFX did not give Tom a first class ticket to some event. They still paid his fair, it just wasn't 1st class like we was used to enjoying. Ever since then he has harboured a grudge and it came out with every review he wrote. He obviously couldn't lie about facts, but he often trivialized Voodoo features that were most impressive by industry standards, and vice versa for nVidia products. I have always felt the nVidia based cards have been faster, but Voodoo cards have always had higher image quality, sometimes because of Glide, but often not. I have seen him trivialize FSAA, while hailing T&L, even though FSAA could be used everywhere (certainly at a performance boost), while T&L is coded in the software.

 

I saw that happen too many times and people assuming him to be a reliable source have built their "knowledge" on flawed preconceptions of a biased writer. That's in the past that 3DFX can no longer haunt his sleep, but I saw an example of it again a few weeks ago.

 

I don't know if any of you have seen the video he made comparing 4 different cpus, 2 of both Intel and AMD, and what happens to them and to the computer when a heatsink is removed. My problems all lied with the Pentium 4 example. In the video you see a mobo, with CPU and hs/f,a nd directly behind that a monitor. Someone is playing a 3d game, i think it may be Quake 3, I couldn't quite tell.

He takes off the cpu, the computer slows down extremly, but doesn't freeze. I can believe that actually, that not where my concern lies, it lies in what he did next. The next thing he does is remove the heatsink and hold a lazer thermometer directly above the core. On the display you can read some very low number, like 24. That is a small problem, but even more of a problem is the fact that you can't see a red dot on the core. In the other 4 samples you see the red telltale dot of the thermometer, but there is no dot in the P4 one. Why isn't there a dot? How can he take an accurate reading of the core temperature without the thermometer even pointing at is? Very suspicious indeed!

 

After he takes his reading and leaves the computer running for a while, he replaces the heatsink to see what happens to the gaming performance. When he had taken it off, the game in the background got very very slow, and that's understandable. And it goes to follow that when he puts the heatsink back on the game speeds back up. That makes sense right? Now, what get's me is how on earth is the game almost twice as fast has it was before he took the heatsink off in the first place? The light isn't pointed at the cpu, and the games ended off running faster than it did before hand? That doesn't seem right at all to me! I'm not surprised about the burning up amds, I've seen it happen to a friends, no surprise there, but I have a VERY hard time accepting that the P4 runs at 24 degrees under what SHOULD be heavy load, atleast under 3d gaming load without a heatsink, AND speeds up after the heatsink is replaced! I was under the impression, by companies like Intel that a large copper () heatsink would be required, and seen proff for it. I know now that the P4 quite cool, but I remember the early P4s. Did they really change the design that much after the messed up the initial releases? They already had to add a bunch more pins, I can't imagine the temperature went down at the same time.

 

Anyways, I don't trust Tom's reviews take them with a grain of salt. I'll read them often, to see what he has to say, but I will never ever ever use them as a primary source, or even a large one, for my infomation.

 

------------------------------------------

 

One more thing about the copper/aluminum stuff. The metal caps on the tops of my Celerons are, you guessed it, ALUMINUM!!!!!!

 

Right underneath is a layer of copper, and another layer of aluminum though.... both elements have their uses. A layer of copper is between two layers of aluminum.... and in between my aluminum heatsinks and the warm Mendicinno<sp> cores. Just some food for thought

[brainsoft 0]

My intel heatsinks are aluminum too, neon blue, came with these 2 Celerons. I have Golden Orbs on them now, also Aluminum.

 

I know the actual caps on the cores have copper in them, though many people would never know this first hand. If you have ever lapped a Celeron, you know that when the top goes copper, then starts turning silver again, you STOP!!! Sanding through that 3rd layer, layer, the second aluminum would render your cpu usuless even as a good paperweight. I lapped my GOrbs and the Celerons, it was actually quite cool seeing the metal layers in the core cap. Mirror, 1000 grit sandpaper, cpu upsidedown on top, sand sand sand. I made them smooth like Mirrors, same with the orbs, perfect connections, appsolutly beautiful.

 

I didn't realize how NOT flat a heatsinks or cpu really are until i went through my lapping phase. I wish I had a digitial camera, I would love to show you the picks from it, it's quite cool. And it's quite COOL... hehehe! Well, not that cool, perhaps more like cool,

 

Hey! I recognize that program! I used it once. No offence, I thought it was ugly and fairly useless compared to the things I ended up using, but it's cool talking to the guy who made it. I found it in my search for something to OC my Voodoo3. I couldn't use the 3DFX overclocker, it only works on Win9x unfortunately, even today with the x3dfx-c guys having taken over driver devolopment/hacking.

 

I agree entirely with Aluminum, and all the theories behind it don't intrigue me like that did back then, but my only realy point up there was to make people question Tom's integretity. I do not believe for one second that Intel or nVidia paid Tom for a favourable review, i just feel that that;s the way he feels.

 

If any of you want to see the CPU burnout comparision video I'll gladly find it, I know exactly where to get a link for it. It's funny watching that t-bird smoke, but also sad

 

Well, good Converstation, I agree as well. Spent all afternoon mentally dualing, and now it's time to go fry my brain with some video games.

hmm, AquaNox? Or BattleRealms?

 

I know! Wolfenstein it'll be for now, then I'll go try to make AquaNox run. Those are some sweet graphics, but I've never had to drop the graphics to the floor to play a game, not since I got my V3, and certainly not since I got my V5.

[brainsoft 0]

The reason I didn't like your program was purely cosmetic. I didn't like the pictures for buttons along the button, I didn't like the banner at the top, and I didn't like the shading behind the words. The white text fading into a white background is very hard to read. I don't like all those pictures scattered around where they're not needed. Take those things out and it looks good and normal, and I probobaly would have used it for a fairly long while. It worked okay I think, I just couldn't stand looking at it was all!

 

------------------------

 

I'm not talking about heatsinks at all anymore, I'm only talking about the physical CPU. I'll look for a link for you to read up on lapping of celerons and the 3 layers in the metal caps.

 

--------------------------------------

 

Yea, I wouldn't buy Celeron's, but when you want a cheap SMP rig that can still MOVE, and you're offered a BP6, and 2 Celeron400s, for designing a website you don't question, that's for damn sure!

 

I wouldn't trade my Dual system for a single cpu system of double the power. My next system will be dual as well, I'm looking at Dual amds, but that won't be happening until next summer at the earliest. My system still stacks up against nearly everything, and the computer industry is so slow lately.

 

People don't have any particular reason to buy a new computer, and software engineers aren't making software that that needs a faster computer, for fear that no one will buy it, because no one needs to buy new computers.

 

Someone needs to make the most killer awesome that EVERYONE MUST HAVE, and needs 2Ghz of power. Only something with the balls and brilliance enough to do such a thing will pull the computer industry back up like it used to be any time soon.

 

AquaNox does push the envelope though, as one of the big GF3 titles, it has basically taxed my system to to the extreme. It's not something that is so great though to persuade me to want to upgrade. If I can't play it, oh well, I have dozens and dozens of other games to choose from.

[brainsoft 0]

Quote:

You could turn them off & elect to use non-gradiated ones... I did not know how that was done at the time of the writing of this one! I learned later how it is done.

Too bad, but live and learn eh! If I could have turned them off I surely would have.

Quote:

Relative term. Depends on your tastes. You're what I call a minimalist, who likes std. looks in programs. I would guess you do not like Microsoft Media Player 7-8x, ZoneAlarm, & others designed along WAY non-std. interface design. Personally, I do like them. Matter of taste/opinion!

Actually I quite like skinnable programs and non-standard designed like that, they're fun, yet functional. I guess the problem with yours was that it was only a little bit non standard. Usually the small things bother me, something that is just a little out of place. Let's say something is normally in one place, and get's moved across the room. Usually in my mind, that object isn't out of place, it merely has a new place, but if it's just moved an inch or two it's out of place and needs to go back the way it used to be. That's the way I look at programs like yours. They give the impression of trying to be fun or cool looking, but don't pull it off because they're not different enough or use something as plain as a simple gradient. A common theme is more attractive then a collection of seeminly random coloured gratient buttons. Give them rounded buttons, with an even shading or shadow or something, use the same theme for all of the program. In all honesty, it looks like the Teletubbies were the artists in your programs. It's not that they're different, it's that they're not professional looking.

Quote:

Well, I figure if THIS site recommended it,and it still does, making it into PCWorld, Chip of Germany (hardest people on software I know of in Germany, real quality fiends, not in looks, but technology used), and onto Cd-Rom distros etc., it was not bad. In fact, I shipped it with like 30 folks statements on its effectiveness, showing between 5%-35% gains in speed.

You really need to stop blowing your own horn. You come off as someone who is trying to prove to everyone how good he is, even though you're a nice guy. "See, my programs got all these little awards, see!" To many people those awards don't mean very much. The awards don't show that you have a good program, just that such and such magazine liked it. If you have lots of little awards like that, it means that more people like your software, not necessary that it's better in any particular fashion. I can appreciate the challenges of programming, I'm learning at the moment, and my life is aimed at software engineering. I can understand that you can't please everyone, and I'm not saying you shouldn't be proud of your awards, because you should be proud of them, but please stop waving them in the air, it is very unbecoming of you and makes your message very difficult to read through.

On a completely different note, just for my curiosity, what is your native language? I'm sure it's not english, i'm just curious as to what it is.

Quote:

Games... games are Intel's future now! You can BET they are helping John Carmack & others like him develop SUPERHIGHEND games that eat CPU cycles like a hungry dog eats meat!APK

I agree, it certainly isn't going to be an OS any time soon, that's for sure! XP has pushed it up to the 400-500mhz range, but it runs just fine on 333. And they've pushed the screen resolution up to 640x480. That actually really bothed me. I was running XP on a second computer on a 14" and I wanted to put my fist through the monitor every time it started up because MS was telling me that 640x480 wasn't good enough. I did not see anything to show that it NEEDED higher! I like high res, hell, I run it mine at 1600x1200 (my gf says it's too small, bah!), but i don't like being forced to use ANYTHING.

Yea, anyways, so games are the answer, I agreed. They need either one really big game that everyone will love, or a big influx of games for everyone, all of which need behemoths to run. The "DoomIII" was just speculatio

I'm not refering to the tool tips, but the buttons themselves. Take a blue to white gradient button, with white text. The white text ends up in a nearly white background. As the blue decreases, so to the ease of reading.

Quote:

Relative term. Depends on your tastes. You're what I call a minimalist, who likes std. looks in programs. I would guess you do not like Microsoft Media Player 7-8x, ZoneAlarm, & others designed along WAY non-std. interface design. Personally, I do like them. Matter of taste/opinion!

Actually I quite like skinnable programs and non-standard designed like that, they're fun, yet functional. I guess the problem with yours was that it was only a little bit non standard. Usually the small things bother me, something that is just a little out of place. Let's say something is normally in one place, and get's moved across the room. Usually in my mind, that object isn't out of place, it merely has a new place, but if it's just moved an inch or two it's out of place and needs to go back the way it used to be. That's the way I look at programs like yours. They give the impression of trying to be fun or cool looking, but don't pull it off because they're not different enough or use something as plain as a simple gradient. A common theme is more attractive then a collection of seeminly random coloured gratient buttons. Give them rounded buttons, with an even shading or shadow or something, use the same theme for all of the program. In all honesty, it looks like the Teletubbies were the artists in your programs. It's not that they're different, it's that they're not professional looking.

Quote:

Well, I figure if THIS site recommended it,and it still does, making it into PCWorld, Chip of Germany (hardest people on software I know of in Germany, real quality fiends, not in looks, but technology used), and onto Cd-Rom distros etc., it was not bad. In fact, I shipped it with like 30 folks statements on its effectiveness, showing between 5%-35% gains in speed.

You really need to stop blowing your own horn. You come off as someone who is trying to prove to everyone how good he is, even though you're a nice guy. "See, my programs got all these little awards, see!" To many people those awards don't mean very much. The awards don't show that you have a good program, just that such and such magazine liked it. If you have lots of little awards like that, it means that more people like your software, not necessary that it's better in any particular fashion. I can appreciate the challenges of programming, I'm learning at the moment, and my life is aimed at software engineering. I can understand that you can't please everyone, and I'm not saying you shouldn't be proud of your awards, because you should be proud of them, but please stop waving them in the air, it is very unbecoming of you and makes your message very difficult to read through.

On a completely different note, just for my curiosity, what is your native language? I'm sure it's not english, i'm just curious as to what it is.

Quote:

Games... games are Intel's future now! You can BET they are helping John Carmack & others like him develop SUPERHIGHEND games that eat CPU cycles like a hungry dog eats meat!APK

I agree, it certainly isn't going to be an OS any time soon, that's for sure! XP has pushed it up to the 400-500mhz range, but it runs just fine on 333. And they've pushed the screen resolution up to 640x480. That actually really bothed me. I was running XP on a second computer on a 14" and I wanted to put my fist through the monitor every time it started up because MS was telling me that 640x480 wasn't good enough. I did not see anything to show that it NEEDED higher! I like high res, hell, I run it mine at 1600x1200 (my gf says it's too small, bah!), but i don't like being forced to use ANYTHING.

Yea, anyways, so games are the answer, I agreed. They need either one really big game that everyone will love, or a big influx of games for everyone, all of which need behemoths to run. The "DoomIII" was just speculation, it COULD be something else, though I doubt it, but it certainly was amazing to see, from a crappy quality quicktime file. I want to see a large high res, high definition movie of it, I love drolling over stuff like that. Give AquaNox a chance if you can, the graphics are quite impressive.

[three 0]

Quote:

I see. I think it may be overheating actualy. I do NOT have a heat sink! All i have is a mall fan!

Quote:

Note, again for reference, here is the system specs: AMD Athlon Thunderbird 1.4GHZ on an ECS k55SA motherboard

heh, i'm still stunned at this part of the post! u'd think the cpu would be fried by now!