Tom's Hardware is becoming more biased...

[clutch 1]

According to the newest article, even with all the spiffy little benchmarks run and the Intel proc (in both RDRAM and DDR) taking the lead on many of them, their conclusion is that AMD is still better. Now, how is that so? I have never been a fan of benchmarks, and certainly not of Tom's Hardware for the last couple of years, but I think this clearly points out their bias toward the Intel product. The bottom line is that Intel put out a processor that can be clocked faster AND runs all those stupid little benchmarks faster. Yet, in the closing statement you see:

 

Quote:

In the benchmark results, the Athlon XP 2300+ cannot quite keep pace with the Intel Pentium 4/3000, but the values that we measured are very impressive. In order to outperform the Intel Pentium 4/3000, AMD must switch over to 0.13 Micron in order to enable higher clock speeds. According to our laboratory results, with a speed of 1933 MHz, AMD can reach the performance of a Pentium 4/3000 based on DDR SDRAM. This clock speed can only be achieved by the new Athlon XP with the Thoroughbred core, which is expected soon.

 

Yet, at the top of the very same page, AMD is crowned as "The Stronger Performer". Huh? AMD will have to convert to another process to keep up in the clock speed race, *yet* they have the better CPU? What do you guys think?

[Palos 0]

I think it's just another article written by someone who needed to write "something". It doesn't bother me anymore, because the situation is clear enough: the Athlon core is hands-down faster and cheaper than P4, even if it was designed in the old days competing with the PIII. Of course you cannot compare a 1.93 GHz CPU with a 3 GHz...and yet the race is pretty close. Come on guys, just look at the title: XP 2300+ vs. P4 3 GHz...it's kind of ridiculous.

[clutch 1]

I don't understand why you can't compare the two, I figured that since those are the "top of the line" from both companies, then you might as well compare them. AMD has been selling their CPUs at speeds closer to their max rate than Intel has for a long time, and this just shows that their architecture isn't ready for the jump yet.

 

My point is that these comparisons have always been about benchmark numbers for most of these guys, and even when the AMD is losing they are being hailed as the victor. I don't follow that logic at all, and I wanted to see if someone here did.

[DosFreak 2]

So basically all the benchies are still saying that the P4 is a slooowww piece of hardware compared to the lower clocked Athlon.

 

Looks like the Athlon wins again!

[clutch 1]

Ohhhhh!!!! I get it! If the Athlon *could* be clocked higher, then it *could* beat the P4, right? That's the point, right? I mean sure, it's slower now, but in the future it could beat that same P4. I get it! Oh wait, wouldn't there be a faster P4(5, 6^, 9#, etc.) to compete with? That's ok! If the Athlon is clocked slower, but can come close, it'll still win because it's better! Woohoo! Thanks Dos...

 

:D

[DosFreak 2]

 

I love this:

 

Quote:

In comparison, today the average system is equipped with a 900 MHz processor as well as an MX2000 graphics card.

 

Yeah...in like 3 years. :wtf:

 

(I'll clock my XP 2000+ tonight up to 2300+ levels ;( and do a couple of benches)

 

Just put this rig together yesterday and it is FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

[DosFreak 2]

NEW RIG

 

Monitor =Sony E500 21"

Speakers =Creative Soundworks DTT3500 Digital

Mouse =Microsoft Intellimouse Optical SE

Joystick =Microsoft Precision Pro

Gamepad =Microsoft Sidewinder Original

Keyboard =Generic 104k Keyboard

Case =Coolermaster ATCS-110 w/Enermax EG651P 550W PSU

Motherboard=Abit KR7A-RAID

Processor =AMD Athlon XP 2000 @1666mhz 133X12.5

Cooling =Alpha PAL8045

Memory =Corsair 256MB DDR XMS2400 CAS2 (2 DIMMS)

Video =Asus v8200 T5 Deluxe (Geforce 3 Ti500) 240C/500M v3.20.00.18 Bios

Floppy =3.5"

MOBO Controller

PMIDE1/Pioneer 16X Slot DVD-106S DMA/66 1.22 Bios

PSIDE1/Empty

SMIDE2/IBM 60GXP 61.5GB DMA/100 (BACKUP2)

SSIDE2/Plextor 24X10X40A CDR DMA/33 1.01 Bios

HPT370 CONTROLLER

PMIDE3/Maxtor L080J4 80GB DMA/133@133 (OS)

SSIDE3/IBM 60GXP 61.5GB DMA/100 (BACKUP1)

SMIDE4/Maxtor L080J4 80GB DMA/133@133 (GAMES)

SSIDE4/Maxtor L080J4 80GB DMA/133@133 (IMAGES)

PCI1/EMPTY

PCI2/Soundblaster Audigy Ex

PCI3/EMPTY

PCI4/NetGear FA310TX NIC

PCI5/EMPTY

PCI6/Hauppauge WINTV Theatre

Windows 2000 Pro slipstreamed SP2/Windows XP Pro (2000 Main OS)

Nvidia 27.20 Reference Drivers

DirectX 8.1 Build 881 /Windows 2000

Directx 8.1 Build 810 /Windows XP

Via 4.37 4-in-1

 

OLD RIG SOON TO BE MY FILE SERVER!

 

 

Monitor =Sony E500 21"

Speakers =Creative Soundworks DTT3500 Digital

Mouse =Microsoft Intellimouse Optical SE

Joystick =Microsoft Precision Pro

Gamepad =Microsoft Sidewinder Original

Keyboard =Generic 104k Keyboard

Case =Coolermaster ATCS-110 w/Enermax EG651P 550W PSU

Motherboard=Abit VP6 w/ YT Modified Bios with HPT370 2.3 Bios

Processor =Dual P3-1000@1166Mhz v1.85 155Mhz bus X 7.5 1/4

Cooling =2X Alpha FC-PAL6035MUC Heatsinks

Memory =3X256m=768 Corsair PC150 @150mhz

Video =Asus v8200 T5 Deluxe (Geforce 3 Ti500) 240C/500M v3.20.00.18 Bios

Floppy =3.5"

MOBO Controller

PMIDE1/Pioneer 16X Slot DVD-106S DMA/66 1.22 Bios

PSIDE1/Empty

SMIDE2/Plextor 24X10X40A CDR DMA/33 1.01 Bios

SSIDE2/IBM 60GXP 61.5GB DMA/100 (BACKUP2)

HPT370 CONTROLLER

PMIDE3/Maxtor L080J4 80GB DMA/133@100 (OS)

SSIDE3/IBM 60GXP 61.5GB DMA/100 (BACKUP1)

SMIDE4/Maxtor L080J4 80GB DMA/133@100 (GAMES)

SSIDE4/Maxtor L080J4 80GB DMA/133@100 (IMAGES)

PCI1/EMPTY

PCI2/Soundblaster Audigy Ex

PCI3/EMPTY

PCI4/NetGear FA310TX NIC

PCI5/Hauppauge WINTV Theatre

Windows 2000 Pro slipstreamed SP2/Windows XP Pro (2000 Main OS)

Nvidia 23.11 Reference Drivers

DirectX 8.1 Build 881 /Windows 2000

Directx 8.1 Build 810 /Windows XP

Via 4.37 4-in-1

[clutch 1]

So you actually got an AMD system? What mobo did you get? If someone can point me to a truly stable motherboard I would consider it. I like the processors, but the last system I worked with (Abit KG7 w/ 1600+) has already had one bad proc, and is about to have the motherboard go in for return. We have wasted 2 weeks on it already with setups and return shipments and are now getting an i845D-based system (probably an ASUS P4B266-C mobo). I knew better than to get it, but this guy at that office has one other that worked OK so I figured I'd try it. Everytime it booted up (well, that was questionable since it wouldn't reboot either) it would re-detect the Via Southbridge. BTW, did I ever mention that I hate Via?

[clutch 1]

Damn, scratch the request on the system specs then...

 

[Brian Frank 0]

I've had good results from Asus, AOpen, MSI and Tyan. Any of those are highly recommeded. I'm not as impressed with Abit as they seem to be overly hyped and then don't live up to their reported greatness. If it is AMD you seeketh, jump over to AMDMB. It's the best site out their on any and all things AMD, without being a zealot-nut site.

 

Tom's: woopdeedoo. There reports, along with anand's, are good as far as the shows like comdex go, but I typically don't hit their sites up too often, much less put a lot of stock in their reviews. They tend to get too damn long. What's good about it, what sucks and just show us a few benchmarks. Cooler roundups are one of the few things I've really appreciated that they do.

[DosFreak 2]

I've only had this computer together for the past 2 days. Finally got 2000/XP installed last night. Still gota install NT4. Only problem I had so far with it is that if I enable the SHUTDOWN COMPUTER WHEN CPU FAIL FAN option then the computer crashes and I have to wipe the CMOS. Leaving it at default clock I have had no crashes whatsoever throughout the install of 2000/XP. Although I did notice an abnormally longer install of Windows XP (due to the Firewire on my Audigy card) In fact although 2000 found the Firewire on the Audigy just fine, XP didn;t find it and actually disabled it! Figures. I'll probably shuffle around some PCI slots tonight. I also installed both OS'S in ACPI without any troubles and the IRQ's allocated as they were supposed to (IRQ 7 most of 'em). No extra VIA patches or 2k/XP patches for VIA. Just the Via 4-in-1 4.37 drivers and I have not experienced any lockups or crashes.

[sapiens74 0]

Look at my specs, it is rock solid stable, even running 2 raid cards and 6 hard drives. And performs well too

[JP- 0]

Dunno if you guys saw this but this was the greatest thing ive ever seen on shardware.

 

Tom on overclocking the p4 and the AthlonXP....

 

Quote:

The days of easy overclocking are long gone, at least with Intel. With the introduction of a fixed multiplier (burned into special SRAM registries of the CPU), the manufacturer has put the clamps on ever since PIII 'Coppermine'. So the only possibility left for overclocking the Pentium 4/2200 is to overclock the FSB. Still, this makes little sense, because the chipset usually increases the clock speeds of PCI-ports and the AGP as well, putting them out of spec. This frequently results in the system sporadically showing signs of instable behavior with the operating system. For this reason, we did not overclock the Pentium 4/2200.

 

And then about 1 line later

 

Quote:

Still, most cases are beset by strict limitations. With the use of a water-cooling system, we were able to increase the CPU clock to 1850 MHz, simply by raising the FSB clock from 133 MHz to 147 MHz. This clock speed would correspond an Athlon XP 2300+.

 

Good ol tom.

 

Think this may also have been posted here before, but its worth seeing again

[clutch 1]

@DosFreak;

 

I have installed WinXP on my workstation at home a few times with my Audigy Platinum, and haven't had any issues with my Firewire port. I wonder why you would have that issue. I am using an i815-based board (and I am looking for an upgrade, hence the questions) that's been awesome, but I need a bit more juice. I just want to reduce the chances of stupid compatiblity issues coming up. I was thinking about getting an MPX-based board, but the last I read they still have broken USB support, and I am not fiddling around with add-in cards.

 

@M4Carbine;

 

You think he's just getting paid by AMD now? Gotta love it...

[sapiens74 0]

Amd doent have to buy friends, whereas INtel does, they are really hurting in the IT market where they have been traditionally stong. The keep dropping the ball on a lot of major issues, and guys like me who have input on our compaies systems recommend AMD now instead of INTEL .

 

 

I am getting an ASUS P4B266 for my lan box soon (father in law works at ASUS) and like a 1.8 or something. I'll let you know how I feel when I get a p4 without the evil Ramb.... i wont even say it.

[clutch 1]

While they might not have to buy reviews from such a "respected" (*cough* *cough*) site, it is evident that they will favor the AMD line no matter what powers it. If someone could simply roll out a motherboard that would work properly, that means use all the features in a stable manner that it claims to have, out of the gate then I would have been using them a long time ago. I regularly hear that many Intel followers are "blind" to what they have been getting, but seeing reviews like that one and others that proclaim "this system is FAST as long as you don't try to use this feature, or use any of these major vendor add-in cards, etc" it just looks like people want Intel to be beaten SO badly that they don't care what they get in return as long as it isn't from Intel.

[JP- 0]

Clutch, totally agree It doesnt matter how fast a system is, if its not stable its useless.

[Xiven 0]

I've never had any stability problems with my AMD system, and it's a damned sight cheaper than any Intel equivalent.

 

It does indeed "use all the features in a stable manner that it claims to have", and I haven't had any problems with my "major vendor add-in cards".

[clutch 1]

Congrats Xiven, but I am pretty sure you have seen enough issues posted here and elsewhere to know what I mean. I am holding out for the 760MPX USB issue to get fixed, as I would like a dual cpu system for my development box. I son't know if I am that patient though, but if the next revs come out soon I might order one for work to play with.

 

[DosFreak 2]

The Audigy problem is most likely simply ACPI screwing around again. Was detected and works fine in 2000 but in XP it is not. Didn't have time to fix it last night. My experience with VIA just listing the computers that I have personally owned:

 

SOYO SY5EMA MVP3 with K63-400

Busmaster drivers as usual would screw things up so I simplu never installed them. Had plenty of problems with getting AGP to work in 2000 when it first came out but playing around with different AGP GART drivers (requires booting into other OS to fix) fixed those. That's it.

 

My next VIA board was the Apollo Pro 133A chipset in my VP6. Again the busmaster drivers were a problem but those have recently been fixed by VIA (probly work for my old MVP3 now too but it's currently in th closet). Only other problem I've had with this board was the "infinite loop" errir which I still had until I switched the mobo for my:

 

ABIT-KR7A-Still pkaying around with this one and so far it's GREAT! Only problem so far was that BIOS option which was a real pain in my A$$ because I though I had a defective mobo/processor/ram until I figured it out. (Enabling the option would just shut the PC down and on reboot it would shut down again). Also the audigy problem. Since I'v only had this PC for 3 days now and I stuck it together rather hurriedly I would like to pat myself on the back for the little errors that I do have.

 

As for PCI card incompatibility....throughout these three mobos I have had all PCI cards filled on all of 'em. Except for the specific hardware problems with the cards themselves mostly not sharing IRQ's correctly I've had nary a problem. I've had ACPI problems on all boards however...except the KR7 so far...

[clutch 1]

My first was this AOpen (Via Apollo Pro 133a) AX34. It hated my GF2 Ultra and wouldn't function with it properly (well, didn't like it at all) despite 4 install attempts of Win2K Pro in ACPI and Non-ACPI mode. Also, it didn't care for my USB-connected APC UPS and would sometimes call it a HID, and other times just wouldn't see it. It would also have issues with my USB SanDisk reader and would tell me that I didn't properly stop the device if the system went into standby, so I had to disable that function altogether. This spanned throughout 3 BIOS revisions until I got rid of the board and went to my ASUS (Intel i815) CUSL2 and never had another issue.

 

The next one (and much more recently) was an Abit KG7 that had all kinds of fun. At first, it took a couple of attempts at getting Windows XP installed before it would complete, and with the first CPU (the vendor determined it was the CPU when we returned to them all the hardware that was purchased) we had issues with the monitor going into standby, and then not coming back on (GeForce2 MX 200). Also, it would intermittently freeze at boot up and when installation applications it would freeze as well. When we got the parts back with the new CPU, the first issue we had was the system not rebooting properly either from the OS or even from within the BIOS. After that, I was fed up with it and told them to send it back.

 

But other than those issues, Via has been great for me...

 

[Brian Frank 0]

Hey, clutch, you know the KG7 is a AMD761/Via 686B combo.

 

BTW, what was your exact config? I'm troubleshooting a guys rig that has the KG7 in it...

[clutch 1]

I know about the southbridge, hence the Via reference. It kept "finding" the Southbridge when we got the second processor and motherboard combination.

 

As for the config, all it had was an Athlon XP 1600+, a GeForce2 MX 200, and a Netgear NIC. I swapped out the NIC, video card, and memory but that had no effect on it. I went looking for the hybrid drivers first (for the 4-in-1s), and then tried the regular ones from Via. They had no effect on either the reboot or the bizarre hardware discovery at each boot.

[Brian Frank 0]

Thanks. Hopefully, I'll have better luck getting this mobo to work than you will.

[Brian Frank 0]

Nope. Couldn't even install Windows even with switching out everything. I told him to get a board by Asus or MSI...I've never had trouble from any company I've used save Abit. That's the last straw for Abit. The KG7 is apparently a very bad board overall.