Gotta Love Linux

[Atreyu 0]

http://news.com.com/2100-1001-857265.html

[sapiens74 0]

People don't realize it's more bug ridden then windows. The more Linux boxes that go up on the net the more we will find out.

[clutch 1]

It will be interesting to see how smoothly a patch rolls out that addresses this problem, but affects so many other applications and processes.

[Atreyu 0]

Yup

 

I have yet to see a nice "Linux Security Bulletin" email pop up in my inbox yet like I do when a problem surfaces with Microsoft... and I certainly don't expect to.

 

Thanks Microsoft, for all you do to keep your products up to date and your customers informed. It's that system which makes Windows and other Microsoft technologies far more trustworty and secure than open source platforms. The reason? Accountability.

 

As they say, you get what you pay for!

[sapiens74 0]

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/24395.html

 

 

LOL

 

 

Linux people don't get it. You give it away for free, then you have no money to develop. As of right now, only one person updates the kernel in Linux,

 

and you wonder why it cannot keep up

[ancker 0]

I find it funny that everyone who has replied to this post can make a judgement from an article.

 

How many of you actually have used a Linux Distro?

 

 

There is plenty of support of Linux...If you care enough to look for it..

IRC hosts a TON of linux rooms where people are more than willing to help. Who actually have a Linux Box in front of them to test and work with you.

 

And I'd rather have a bunch of people actually helping me out rather than a HelpDesk at Microsoft sit there and Read from their "procedure list" and have to be transfered to a higher lever of support 3 times before I actually get someone knowledgeable. All while paying for it..

 

My Linux box which I use just as much as my windows box, has been up for over 100 days now...I use Red Hat 7.x (x because I've upgraded from 0-1-2). I have to reboot my windows machine at least once a week because of excessive page faults in explorer.exe and various memory leaks from services.

 

I'm not writing this to start a flame but to ask you to actually go out and install Linux before you trash it because some guy at Cnet.com couldn't figure out how to set the mount points and gave it a horrible review.

 

I've heard of several projects where there has been Linux labs set up in High Schools, where students (having never used a computer/not been spoiled my MS) have said it was just at easy to learn as windows and actually prefer it over windows.

 

Linux may be hard for you, because you'd used nothing other than windows. But if you started with Linux or had the patience to learn something other than "point and click", you wouldn't be so quick to trash it and complain about something you probably haven't even tried.

 

Nevertheless...This is just my opinion.

 

Ancker Jade

[Atreyu 0]

My Win2k servers never crash, nor does my 2k workstation. Never. I've gone hundreds of days (yes, hundreds) without needing reboots on my servers. They are solid as a rock and are locked down tight.

 

Like with Linux, when you know what you are doing, Windows NT,2k, and XP are rock solid OS's. As far as your comments about Windows crashing... Windows crashes are USUALLY a result of user error, misconfiguration, improper upkeep, and badly written installed applications. And as for the point and click stuff, remember that Windows came about from DOS which was command line... and gurus like me certainly havn't lost our taste for writing batch files or using command line for... well tons of stuff.

 

Linux is not hard for me, I could learn it... it's just that there is no point. Heck I learned how to program COBOL/PL1/JCL on an IBM Host. If I was able to learn that, Linux would be a cupcake.

 

Linux would certainly be the answer over Window 9x/ME for stability and security, but this no longer applies since the advent of Windows 2000, .NET and XP.

 

Oh and by the way, I have tried it... many times. Back in school I even wrote labs for others to complete with regard to installing and configuring Linux for network use (workstation and server). We set up web servers and attempted an email server but ran out of semester. My curiosity has always been aroused, and I've tried it many times.... which is why I came to the conclusion.

 

It's kinda like my Netgear RT314 Router. All the advanced features are accessible only through a Telnet session. It's wonderful that the features are there, but it doesn't have to be THAT complicated to work with them.

 

That's all for me.

[clutch 1]

I have used Stormix, 2 versions of Mandrake, and 2 versions of Redhat. I have used them as workstations and as admin/utility servers, and have configured them as web/ftp servers and even made them browsable via Samba. I find them limiting as workstations since almost no software for what I want to do is available for it yet, and I haven't seen a uniform directory service to cover all of the containers and objects in a Linux forest/domain to make administration easier (if you have, please post a link). Now, having *used* the OS in several flavors I think I can say I don't care for it in its current trim, but hopefully that will change.

 

You mention that students who were not "spoiled" with MS products found the Linux environment to be easier. Well, most people will find the first environment that they learn in easier to work in than any other environments that follow until they can fully grasp it. My first GUI was on an Apple, and I found that very easy to use and hated Windows because it was unstable trash that didn't have enough applications/hardware available for it. And then the tables turned, and now the vast majority of computer systems use Windows (which works quite well now, thank you ) and you can get all kinds of hardware and software for it. Could this happen for Linux? Well, it isn't looking too good, since many of the innovators and distro providers went out of business because (*shudder*) businesses have to make MONEY in order to stay in business. What a surprise. Then, with the infighting that has been going on forever and seems to be getting a bit worse with respect to control of the kernel, it might hamper the future of the OS to some degree.

[Brian Frank 0]

My very limited experience with Linux (several different versions of Mandrake): after installing the OS and toying around trying to get all the hardware to work, I was like "Now what do I do with this?" Linux may have it's uses, but I'd like to get even deeper with Windows first before I try digging into a totally new platform. Yes, Windows has issues, but MS does a fine job of letting people know and putting up a fix. Also consider that more bugs and such are gonna be pointed out with windows as most PC's (90 odd %) use one version or another of it. If you're some no-good hacker or virus programmer, let's think of which platform is likely to hurt the most people. It ain't Linux. It's Windows. Why is Windows #1? Because it's a good product and you don't have to search to find apps for it. Windows has been very stable for me, even Win9x (save ME, grrrrr) was pretty good to me. It was uniform, unlike Linux with the zillion distros available. Once you have a good idea about the install procedure with the 9x or NT kernel and the functions of each, it's not a real sweat. Linux is too much work to learn right now for me personally. I'd like to, but I have other things I'd much rather do instead.

[Brian Frank 0]

Oh, and I'd like to add that the only times I've had lockups or crashes is due to some software or too high of overclocking under Win2k or XP.

[hlutgerink 0]

Hi there clutch

 

I'm running "The Dutch Windows Xp HomePage" with articles from

Alecstaar.

 

I have changed ISP which Alexander probably doesn't know.

 

I'd like his email address because the present one isn't valid anymore.

 

My email address now is avatar@avatar.demon.nl

 

homepage = http://win-xp.cc or

http://www.avatar.demon.nl

 

This reply probably doesn't belong here, so please forgive me doing it this way

 

Henk Lutgerink (Netherlands)

[roger720 0]

Quote:

http//news.com.com/2100-1001-857265.html

I am happy to join this forum so that I can get assistence to solve my problem. I am switching from windows xp professional to linux . I do not known which distribution as yet. I get plenty problems with windows , it is higly unstable. I have the following hardwares asus a7n8x 333fsb motherboard, chaintech geforce fx 5200 , 512ddr ram, amd athlon 2600xp
yet I get a lot of sticks or freezes. I come to realise it is not the hardware but windows -operating system . It is bogus, every minute you have to download a patch here a patch there. I am new to linux .I want to know if my hardware is compatible with the various linux distributions. Now a friend brougtht over by me knoppix -linux I put it into one of my drives , to install it , it read all my hardware then the monitor is blank. some one told me my chaintech geforce fx 5200- agp8x 128ddr vga card need drivers to show the knoppix-linux. Can you tell me what may the real problem ? I went to the chaintech site I get no help. some one please assist me? thanking you in advance.

[Mr.Guvernment 0]

it is more likely the hardware then windows..lol

 

 

asus a7n8x For a start - like alot of AMD systems u need to tweak the mobo before you even install windows!

 

, chaintech geforce fx 5200 ,

 

 

I am sorry, i really feel sorry for you since u bought this card

 

 

have u grabbd all chipset driver for your mobo? check all setting? i know a few forums i post on have threads about 50 pages long about how to trouble shoot with that particular mobo - i dont htink switching to linux will help - it might because you wont have as many options with your hardware as you do windows.

 

 

Quote:

Now a friend brougtht over by me knoppix -linux I put it into one of my drives , to install it , it read all my hardware then the monitor is blank. some one told me my chaintech geforce fx 5200- agp8x 128ddr vga card need drivers to show the knoppix-linux. Can you tell me what may the real problem ? I went to the chaintech site I get no help. some one please assist me? thanking you in advance.

 

 

And yet you say it is windows fault that your system freezes and such?

[clutch 1]

First, check out www.linuxcompatible.org, as that is the sister forum to this one for Linux issues (your account will work there as well, just login with these credentials). As for the issues, there can be many reasons why you are locking up in Windows, and I would say they are hardware related. If you are having issues in Windows, then you might have even more issues in Linux. Fortunately, having an nVidia card will make your life easier, but it depends on if there are available binaries for your distro/kernel or not. I preferred compiling the source, but that might be a little be difficult for a new person.

[shassouneh 0]

What most people do not realize is that MOST linux people tend to use either RedHat, or Mandrake. Don't get me started on those 2. Each of them suck big time!

I personally use SuSE. Have been happy with it ever since 7.3 (and now they're at 9.0).

 

Unlike windows, the "quality" of linux varies EXPONANTIALLY with the distribution you use. I have foud SuSE to be the most hardware-compatible, easiest to run, and look the nicest.

 

You must also realize this fundamental fact: Linux is NOT for games. It was NEVER designed to be a game OS. You find Linux in some research projects, some enterprise number crunching, some networked systems, etc.

 

Linux has many advantages over Windows. Windows has introduced true multi-user capabilties in windows 2000. but only got it down right in windows XP. Linux has supported multiple concurrent users form the get-go. This is just one example.

 

Each WIndows and Linux has their own advantages. For ease of use, gaming, etc.. Go for windows. For Dedicated servers, networked systems, and larger projects go with Linux.

 

PS: Also, people claim Linux is a non-standard OS. That is PRECISELY the point. Windows runs on an i386,486,pentium,pentium pro, .... P4, Athlon, etc... And as far as we know its opne huge ugly kernel. The linux approach is much different. A kernel is provided for each architecture, which makes the kernel much smaller in size, much more efficient, and less prone to kernel problems

 

I was a faithful Windows users for years and years, until I discovered Linux and began to shy away from Windows.

 

This is just my 2 cents

[ancker 0]

Wow, its been a while since I've visited this forum, but hey.

 

What do you all think of Linux now? I am now 100% Linux/Open Source.

I've never been happier as a computer user and administrator.

 

Linux has come a long way since the 3 years ago this thread was started.

Windows has had MANY embarassing moments/months over the past year, what has Linux had? None?

 

And don't mention the SCO thing. They'd go after Microsoft if they could get their hands on some code. (Lawsuit Happy...)

 

Anyway, I'm interested to see what everyone thinks now.

[Brian Frank 0]

It's still got a way's to go before it's going to hit the desktop for primetime. Alot of it isn't with the OS as much as the hardware and software community.

People need to be able to walk into Best Buy and grab the software/hardware they want and not have to worry about if it's going to be supported under Linux. The average joe doesn't want to have to look around for the latest device drivers and do kernel compiling. They want to turn it on and have it work. Some distro's are getting pretty good at that part, but you've still got the 3rd party software and hardware support issue. They're coming along, but it's still going to be awhile before Linux can really be considered a real mainstream Windows alternative.

[clutch 1]

Quote:

Wow, its been a while since I've visited this forum, but hey.

What do you all think of Linux now? I am now 100% Linux/Open Source.
I've never been happier as a computer user and administrator.

Linux has come a long way since the 3 years ago this thread was started.
Windows has had MANY embarassing moments/months over the past year, what has Linux had? None?

And don't mention the SCO thing. They'd go after Microsoft if they could get their hands on some code. (Lawsuit Happy...)

Anyway, I'm interested to see what everyone thinks now.

Wow, I guess you didn't notice the vi or SSH issues eh? Or even better, the lack of *real* ACPI compatibility (and no, I don't care what they say about hardware design, if Windows can support them and Linux is better, then kernel developers can get the lead out) until the last kernel rev (don't know if it works yet either).

I love Linux, but when someone wants to do a side-by-side comparison I want to see what they are limiting the comparison to. As a desktop, Linux is abysmal for my needs (such as themes, keeping the Qt, GtK, and GtK2 themes in sync is a pain in the a$$, or fonts...eeesh). As a simple server, it's pretty cool. Unfortunately, LDAP support is rather iffy across all of the services that can support it without extensive compiling and configuration. At least Apple is doing that fairly well with their spin on BSD (OSX).

Cool OS, but it isn't all that.

[EddiE314 0]

hey hey hey, whats with the linux bashing people, i have never had a problem with linux, Clutch suggested i try Gentoo-Linux a while back, been using it ever since with no probs, i finally gave up on windows for the most part, i still keep a box running for a few games that i can't play in linux well or at all. i find it much more simple to use than windows, the first month was the crucial time when i was going insane, but i can do just about anything windows can do, except play a few games of my liking. Try switching to Linux for a month or two, try Gentoo-Linux, you might find that you like it more than windows.

[EddiE314 0]

Linux is great, Gentoo's Portage system based off of FreeBSD's ports system makes the whole thing easier than any other linux i have tried, i originally installed it on a celeron 500, 256mb pc66, and 8.4gb hdd system, to my surprise, kde 3.1.4 (most recent at the time)ran very smooth with all the pretty gui effects, even better than it ran with winxp. sound is a problem sometimes, the best all around card i can suggest is a type of sound blaster live card, the kernel drivers (oss) work great with it, ALSA works great too with 2.6 but some games and apps had problems with the ARTS+ALSA combination. For video cards i'd say use an ATI Radeon 8500 or higher or any NVidia card, dialup modems are a joke and i have only been able to get the crappy pctel winmodems to work (figures since they worked like crap in windows). the 2.6 kernel is, IMHO, way better in terms of drivers and support than the 2.4 series, the 2.6 kernel even comes with support for a modded xbox usb controller and various usb lcds. laptop support is much better as it now supports better power management options and features. give linux a shot, you won't regret it, the command line is easy after you learn a few basic commands and filesystem structure, i actually tend to rely on the command line more than the gui, why click 20 or so times when i can type two commands to do the same thing.

 

 

[sapiens74 0]

Using Mandrake 10 now, and its easy enough to get online.

 

Nice little operating system to run on Virtual PC

 

But in now way is Linux ready for the enterprise workstations.

[jimf43 0]

Personally I don't care what the OS is called as long as I can use it to accomplish what I need to do. Brand loyalty is the worst BS and not worth anyone's time. I've run Dos from 3.0, 'all' versions of windows, OS/2 3-4,

and a bunch of different Linux Distros. I've been the Systems Administrator for most Engineering departments that I've work in.

 

I've been using Linux in different versions for about three years and seriously (Mepis/Debian) for the last year. So far I don't see it, at least for my needs, as a viable replacement for W2K. That said, I'm amazed at the progress that Linux has made in the last year. Linux also has a number of problems related to the standardization of distro/app installation and updates. Many in the Linux community are dedicating their time , skill, and effort in correcting problems and developing and enhancing all areas of Linux. That's a lot more than can be expected form M$ who will let a flaw exist until public outrage 'forces them' to do something about it. I won't even get into the long list of scams that Bill$ M$ has perpetrated on it's customers. Linux at least allows 'you' to take control of 'your' system.

 

The gap between Window$ and Linux is rapidly closing and I expect parity in their functionality within the next year. Actually if it weren't for some of the database and specialized Engineering apps, I might already be running Linux exclusively.

 

IMO W2k is the high water mark for M$ operating systems. It has the stability, speed, and functionality of NT without the disastrously cumbersome interface that bloats XP and future purposed M$ products. Having seen 'Longhorn', I for one don't want to go there. I'm just hoping that Linux will give me a viable alternative.

[duhmez 0]

Almost all modems you seein stores do requir dirvers now as they are software modems. If no linux software written for them you are SOL. For best results you need a true hardware modem. (Not too cheap)

then it will 100% of the time work.

[CyberGenX 0]

I think someone above said it already. What is the point. Linux is still pretty well reserved for advanced users/admins. I have yet to see one 'general' business run their company on anything but a MS based OS.

 

I have the same excuse that lots of people do.

 

 

"I would use Linux BUT..."

 

But, A LOT of the programs that I use DON'T run on Linux. If they did, it is because of a 3rd party emulator. Which CAN be very buggy. An you pretty much got to compile certain portions of the code in a few of those. Who the h@ll has time for that?

 

Find me a distro that works out of the box with the following programs (without alternate programs) and I will switch NOW.

 

Adobe Premiere Pro

Avid Studio

Adobe Photoshop

Pinnacle Studio

Ulead DVD Factory

ALL MS products (including Office, Viso, Visual Studio, excluding OSes)

ACT!

Battlefield 1942, Desert Combat

Call of Duty

Half-Life2 beta (don't ask)

 

[clutch 1]

I have been at a Microsoft MVP Summit in Seattle/Redmond over the last week, and didn't have much time to check out the forum (not to mention how hard it is to find new posts, but that's another story... ). I have been a fan of Linux and Windows, and earlier I stated I was a fan of Apple over Windows as well. Now, here's another new wrinkle for the Linux fans.

 

If you note, Microsoft has had several lawsuits over the years for all kinds of things. Software patents, monopolistic behavior, Java, etc. have all been in court with various companies and settled by MS. During these times, you have never seen anything from the companies suing MS stating that you, the user, are infringing upon someone else's rights. This is how it should be.

 

However, with Linux, this is not the case. In addition, major patent holders (such as Novell, with SuSe) are sitting in the path of lawsuits by SCO and will be offering *limited* (if any) protection from their company to their userbase. IBM will probably be an exception, but we'll have to see what comes of this. The major problem is that SCO is *also* threatening end users of Linux products in the corporate environment. We have received letters from SCO (I'm a contractor for the US Army in Active Directory) in various departments, and there is now a widespread directive to hand off all communications from them to the Army's attorneys. Funny, we never got anything from Sun for using Microsoft's version of Java...

 

But, it gets worse. While we have the services of legal staff to deal with this, but Linux is being pitched to the small companies as an "affordable" alternative to Microsoft since the core OS is free. Well, SCO is not differentiating between them and large corporations, and will come after them as well. And, since there are no real companies backing ownership of the kernel and core functions, there's nobody to defend the users that have purchased the OS and support from the vendors.

 

Now, we have SCO suing both distributors AND users of Linux combined with the XFree86 chief-cook-and-bottle-washer jacking with his licensing requirements that effectively render the ubiquitous X-Server GPL incompatible, and make backers of it (such as nVidia and ATi, along with most distributions) question what they will use in the future (and thus, who will support older, GPL-compliant versions of XFree86 and where to move to next). Does this combination of issues make Linux more or less desirable for the enterprise?

 

Bottom line, I feel that Linux is an excellent OS for appliance and admin use. It's great as a server for dedicated apps (ERP, DB apps, webservers, etc) and nice to use for troubleshooting various systems (networks, other OSs) since it has a vast array of utilities and can be made to run optimally on very old and slow hardware (and is fantastic on new hardware). As a desktop, it leaves me wanting for more. As a laptop OS, it doesn't even rank anymore. I use Windows Server 2003 Enterprise Edition on my laptop, and I have no problems with using Apple's OSX when I can get my hands on one (fav *nix client, as it has a wonderful interface and I believe that Apple will stand up to whatever lawsuit comes at it). I really hope Linux pulls out of this downward spin, and builds a stronger community because of it. It's just that right now I don't feel that it's the right choice for most situations anymore.