M$ users.......read on

[sapiens74 0]

Then why arent you 2 using linux and posting on linuxcompatible.com then?

 

Your saying they are bullies to multibillion dollar companies who dont need your support. If you dont like MS then dont use any product of thiers. I paid 147 doallrs for an OEM copy of XP pro when I bought a mB and CPU. THats not a lot of money. THey do not charge and arm and a leg for thier products.

 

ANd "brains" I get paid good ****ing money to know how to use Linux and Windows and whatever else I can know to help people get the job done.

 

Most people here are enthusiasts. Some people, like me are prefessional IT guys, who RUn or help run large networks and have a little better knowledge on how things work. IF you don't like MS fine don't use thier priducts. Don't insult those of us who get paid to know this stuff by saying, in so many words, that we are morons.

[three 0]

uhmm..first off you need to calm down. second, i never called anybody a moron. as i recall, you were the first to call people morons

Quote:

Your a ****ing moron.

microsoft feeds you, so i can understand how you can be biased, but i'm sure things would change if you worked for the little companies or if you were one of the victims.

as for me using linux, well i have in the past, but it was due to the lack of applications that i chose windows instead, why the lack, well...that's microsoft's so called business tactics.

 

and just to clarify things, i NEVER said 'microsoft sucks or linux forever!' ok?...i use xp, i like xp...i'm just pointing out some facts, that's all.

 

but i guess the only way you would understand were if i to say something like 'microsoft is the bestest greatest os in the entire world...bill is god...i want to marry bill....he is my hero! huh?

j/k lighten up...

 

btw..i DON'T support MS, i'm a free loading b*****d

[sapiens74 0]

First of all your starting to piss me off..

 

 

Angelina Jolie is GOD! No one can ever take her place!

 

ANyways, I have been on both sides. I worked for a small comapany as a tech, and Spent 3 hours one Day on the phone with MS tech support who did everything they could to help this old man who was having problems connecting to our internet service. They have always giving the best tech support, to me as a lowly tech, WHen I worked for the goverment, and a large company here in Seattle, so I have nothing but praise for them.

 

I do realize the fact they are not nice business folks. THey can be mean spirited, bullies who try to shove stuff on thier OEM partners. But so many companies like them do the same. INtel has strongarmed people, and the worst offender, and IMHO the worst company out there, AOLTimeWarner is just plain evil. They push everything form software to content, even on thier news shows. To me that is truly disgusting. BUt like the Mcdonalds analogy, you can go to Wendy's, KFC, Arby's, Jack in the BOX, Taco Bell, the list goes on. We all have choices, and MS only has some control if we use the Windows platform.

You have to also understand it from a business standpoint. Can you imagine deploying 300 machines on a new OS and have to install browsers, Media players, ZIp file management, messengers (Only for remote desktop )and the like?

THey give you the flexibilty to install what you want but the basic core components to function as is for the average user

[BladeRunner 0]

Hi there Three, you seem to have a more balanced/mature attitude than some of the others here (especially that Sapiens74).

 

That wouldn't be because he totally agrees with you would it?

He shares your outlook on things so he must be correct and the people who think you are talking rubbish are wrong?

Sounds very closed minded to me.

 

I like your analogy with fast food, and your point that initially, when Internet browsers were new, Netscape WAS the better browser (people are forgetting these small facts).

 

Nobody is forgetting these facts.

When Netscape was first released it was the best browser available.

However, and if you want to go into facts, do you know what Netscape did when they realised MS were releasing a rival product?

Nothing!

They didn't attempt to make their product any better, they sat back and decided to rely on their market share to win the battle.

Then IE4 was released, it blew Netscape out of the water and Netscape has been playing catch up ever since.

Netscape have only themselves to blame, they had years of "owning the market" yet allowed the new boys to produce and release a better product.

 

M$ are bullies, they pulverise ANY competition (making it either bankrupt OR they buy inferior competing technology and offer that M$ customers as 'the future' !

 

Ah, we see what level we are on now, you use "M$" instead of "MS", that is just soo funny, I still laugh when I see that now.

Anyway, any company at the top of their field will attempt to stay there, it's the rules of business.

MS cannot "make somebody bankrupt" only the buying public can do that.

Purchasing other companies is a very sound business plan, as long as you have the capitol to do so.

Why spend years developing a product and always having to play catch-up when you can simply purchase a competing product as a base to start on and get yourself onto a level playing field almost immediately?

It's called business, a little bit of knowledge on how the world and economy works would show this.

 

There is OBVIOUS colluding between Intel, M$ and that is forced on OEMs.

 

and of course the world would be so much better if company's didn't partner with one another wouldn't it?

Have you ever heard of the saying "You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours"?

What this means is that Intel & Microsoft (Hay, you must have heard of Wintel right?) work together.

One produces the hardware to run the OS (CPU) the other produces the OS to run on the hardware (Windows).

Once again a pretty simple business model.

Of course Windows wont run on AMD processors will it so.....wait a minute, that isn't true at all, kind of blows that conspiracy out of the water doesn't it?

Last time I checked I could buy an Intel CPU WITHOUT the need to purchase Windows.

Also, last MS product I purchased I wasn't forced to buy an Intel CPU at the same time.

 

And OE, what a piece of crap ! Xnews, written by ONE person and is infinitely better AND FREE (try installing Xnews or uninstalling it and you'd wonder what the fcuk add/remove programs is all about).

 

Please define "crap".

OE is a package designed to send/recieve e-mail and to allow access to and reading of Usenet.

What's more is that it is included with the OS, you can start sending e-mail's the second your OS is up and running.

You don't have to go online and download something, of course you can if you like.

I'm not saying OE is great, I use Outlook XP and that is superior in every way, but OE crap? I have to disagree.

 

The point I'm making is M$ just offer reconstituted garbage with different coloured buttons and some bug fixes and people go "wow!".

 

The ill-informed maybe, but most people take the time to do the research and this really isn't true.

Windows 2000 was a new OS from the ground up, however it shared the same front end that WinNT & Win98 had been using for years.

People did still go "Wow" after the Win2k release because they were amazed at how good the new OS was.

WinXP as anybody in the industry will tell you is more or less a service release for Win2k, however nobody is being forced to upgrade to it.

It is an important release as at last the two historically different product lines (NT for work, 9x/DOS for home) have been combined into one, with all the advantages that offers.

You really seem to have a low opinion on general computer users, which is a little bit sad.

You seem to think they purchase by name or label and not by what the product can do.

As somebody who started off his computing career as a salesperson you'd be suprised at how much research "Mr. Average" does before purchase.

 

I personally will never buy a single piece of M$ software ever again. They've ripped off the world basically (but the world is wising up).

 

This is a very key statement and I agree with what you are saying.

If you feel that MS products do not deliver what you need.

That they cannot offer you the reliability that you demand then do NOT use MS products.

This isn't a difficult concept to udnerstand.

Format your PC, install whichever flavour of Linux you fancy, grab yourself Star Office and away you go.

If however you are saying in this statement "I'll never buy a single MS product again, instead I'll steal them" then that is a totally different matter.

It basically makes all your arguments useless, you slag off the product, tell us how crap they are, yet you add to the statistics as a "Windows user" rather ironic really.

As I said, you do not really indicate which of the two you are from your statement, I'm hoping you are one that sticks by your guns and uses Linux and otehr free software.

If you are a thieving freeloader then any respect I once had for you is out of the window.

 

API, buggy software, viruses, nothing new (Office 95/97/2000/XP), IE bundling, Java, Realplayer the list goes ON and ON.

 

You really haven't gone into much detail here, you've really just thrown some "buzz-words" around and assumed that is all that needs to be said on the subject, however you really need to go deeper.

When you make such a bold statement along the lines of "All these things are what is wrong with MS products" then you really need to elaborate.

 

Of course MS products are going to be buggy, the same with every single other piece of software released.

I challenge you to tell me of a totally bug-free software release, I do not think you could tell me one.

There has to be a cut-off point in a piece of software's development.

Companies have to say "Ok, we need to go live with this, we will fix the remaining problems in the field".

If they didn't then no software, no games would ever get released, they would always be in development.

Also products released would be all old technology due to the sheer number of different configurations this software needs to run on.

 

Viruses - As has been said many times, Virus writers will always target the most common OS to maximise their damage.

There is no point writing a virus for Linux (Although there are some) because why take out 5% of the world's PC's when you can take out 90%.

If you are running a good virus scanner then virus's should never be a worry to you.

At home I have never been hit by a virus, I've downloaded them, I've received them through e-mail but they have never caused any damage.

At work, for the past 20 months since I've been working again we have not experienced any virus damage.

 

IE bundling - How does this not benefit the end user?

The end user is arguably getting the best Windows based browser available, for free and what's more, it's there the second the OS has been installed.

No having to log-on, launch an FTP client and download a browser that way (Like the good old days eh?(Name me a few Mr. Averages who would be able to do that)).

 

Realplayer - Even Real networks have admitted in the various court sessions that without Windows and without IE their product wouldn't be where it is now.

It relies on API's built into Windows, more so the IE ones.

[Alien 1]

Quote:

And as for the idiot who suggests goto add/remove programs to remove IE, ROFLOL !!!!!!

I was the 1 who stated that IE is listed in the add/remove programs applet, & I'd like an explanation for your insult, as I feel it was undeserved. IE is listed under the add/remove Windows Components section.

[BladeRunner 0]

Yes, Linux isn't there yet, but boy doesn't it show how an OS should be designed ?? UNIX Kernel and apps separate, true multi-user, true multi-tasking. Where are the viruses ? Kernel safe (not like Windoze and Outlook). And what about FORCING people to UPGRADE (and if you don't understand that Sapiens74, say nothing). No backwards compatibility with M$

 

You are so right Linux isn't there yet.

If Linux was in it's infancy, if it hadn't been with us very long then I could understand waht you are saying.

We need to give it time to mature, just give it a few years.

It has had a few years, it has had plenty of time to become a realistic alternative to Windows, but it has not.

The average user still cannot find his way around a Linux system.

It has been proved over and over again that a person new to computers placed in front of an MS OS can start doing basic things within minutes.

WinXP offers full multi-user capabilities, we use them at work and they work every bit as good as under Linux.

 

Forcing people to upgrade??

As I said in an earlier thread, I really must go out and buy Windows XP WGAT version (With gun at head)

MS have never forced anybody to upgrade, it is purely the users choice.

You ask Sapiens74 to "shut up" if he doesn't understand.

Well maybe I'm being a little bit slow too, I've never seen anybody forced into making an upgrade.

Backwards compatability?

Well of course MS products have this.

I can use Word XP for example to open files generated in Word 2.0

I can use Excel XP to open old Excel 95 files.

Not one piece of software I used to run under Win9x wouldn't run under Win2k when I upgraded (I lie, two games had problems, no biggie, I stopped playing them).

I do not see your argument on backwards compatability, never seen a major problem that couldn't be worked around.

 

Finally, the cost of M$ products are unreal

 

Please could you define "unreal"?

Compared to £0 then yes the MS prices are infinitely more expensive.

However, if you go through life simply purchasing upgrades each time then the overall cost is pretty low.

For example, somebody buys a PC with Windows 95 pre-installed.

Using retail upgrades that same user could now be using WinXP for relatively speaking very little money.

The person once again is not forced to upgrade ever.

So, lets say Mr. A purchased an upgrade to Win98 in 1998 for £70.

He is still using Win98 now, that is four years of the same OS for £70 or the equivilant of £17.50 per year, I'd say that is a bargain.

 

Lets say Mr. A needs MS Office too.

Well, he purchased an upgrade to Office 97 back in 1997 for £250.

He's still using that package now, so that is £250 for five years (so far) of use, that's £50 per year, still a bargain I'd say.

 

I'm really interested now as to how you are releated to the computer industry or if everything you have said is based on a few real-world experiements and the rest of the magazine and media hype/stories.

Personally I look after networks for a living, networks that contain both Linux & Windows boxes on.

I've seen everything in the "real world" and even after seeing it all with my own eyes I still defend MS and their products.

I noticed you attacked somebody else by saying "You don't have the best OS around, only the most popular".

Well in my eyes, certainly currently, these two go hand in hand.

As a home OS Windows is vastly superior to anythign the Linux community can throw out.

When it comes to servers then where one fails the other has strength, I'm currently on a 75%/25% split Windows/Linux on servers at work because the MS solutions are providing what I need, the reliability I need and above all the "lack of maintenance" that I need to get my job done.

[sapiens74 0]

Wow....

 

that about says it...

 

Wish I could be that eloquent...

 

Then again GOd wouldnt have made me so darn handsome

[BladeRunner 0]

LOL

[lager_brains 0]

Quote:

I was the 1 who stated that IE is listed in the add/remove programs applet, & I'd like an explanation for your insult, as I feel it was undeserved. IE is listed under the add/remove Windows Components section.

Erm, aren't the WHOLE frigging court cases and issues regarding IE being bundled with Windoze, intertwinded with the OS AND NOT BEING ABLE TO BE UNINSTALLED the reason WHY it is NOT where you SAY it is for removal ??

Because, YOU CAN'T DO IT !!!!!!

That's what the whole court case who-hars are about !

Where have you been all this time ?? Mars ?

Doh ?

;(

[Davros 0]

Quote:

And as for the idiot who suggests goto add/remove programs to remove IE, ROFLOL !!!!!!

Maybe if your brains weren't made of lager you would bother to check your facts before insulting people like a screaming 2 year old.

What I mean is explain yourself in a mature manner. Namecalling and yelling at people will not get anyone to take you seriously. You're just branded as "another bored 13 year old to be ignored."

Here, pay close attention, let me show you:

Sorry Alien, but all that method does is remove access to IE via shortcuts. It removes your shortcuts to it. The little description at the bottom of the window tells you this when you highlight that option. IE has been highly integrated into Windows and is a requirement for Active Desktop, many Windows Explorer functions, etc. You could find other ways to remove IE, but it would cause much more trouble than it's worth.


See how easy it is to be an adult pilsner_head?

[lager_brains 0]

Quote:

Of course it doesnt . But you can use whatever ****ing app you want in its place.

No one makes you Use IE, or Windows Media.

Why the swearing ??

Anyway, I have to say, I really am surprised at your lack of intelligence.

"You can USE whatever app you want in it's place".

That's the whole frigging point you moron (you started it). They give you crap for 'free' (with NO way of uninstalling it), that in turn kills the better software (which was only a few bucks anyway but ANYONE would rather have something for nothing, right ?), EVERYONE UNDER THE PLANET then ends up using the free/crappy software, and WE PAY FOR IT IN THE END ( a: because it is built into the price of the OS and b: because WE AS THE CONSUMER GET DENIED THE BEST SOFTWARE/TALENT OUT THERE BECAUSE M$ KILLED IT TO GIVE US IT'S SH*T INSTEAD).

If that doesn't make any sense to you, sorry but I can't be bothered any further.

[Immortal 0]

Hi all,

The thing is that ive used all the OS's that ur talking about. frankly i think that MS is doing a much better job at listening to their users and solving their problems. If they cant solve it then they accept that and tell you (it has happend to me, they apologised and said they cant fix it)!

Linux, Unix, Mac OSx they are all good OS's but windows delivers more 'tools' that people want, thats MS's selling point!

 

The fact is that most people in this world are NOT It professionals like some of you (sapiens74,Brian frank,bladerunner,etc) so they want a simple looking OS and an easy interface to use with lots of hardware/software support. So windows 9X appeals to them with its 99% compatibility with hardware and software, its easy setup, interface and learning curve!

For the more 'advanced' users they would use NT or 2k, its got better functions, faster but sacrifices compatibility. SO! ive used windows 98 SE, NT, 2K pro and now XP. Microsoft in every new version of windows has offered something new. wether its the New Kernel of NT, or the functionality of XP with its NT core and near windows 9x compatibility!

 

As for the removing ofbuilt in MS 'tools', why? If u dont want them dont use them! or if you cant handle that (for any reason), look on the net, do some research and find out how the hell you remove them! There ARE some tools out there that do these things for you.

 

MS might use some business tactics that we do not like, but thats nothing new! Intel do the same with AMD, and AMD do the same with Intel! Its the way things are!

Now here is the good part:

IF YOU DONT LIKE MS AND DONT WANT TO USE ANY OF THEIR PRODUCTS DONT BOTHER OWNING A COMPUTER!!!

 

Why?

Becuase most things use MS files, drivers etc. And franlky without MS we wouldnt have a great operating system which can combine hardware form differnet manufacturers to work together properly! It might have a few probs but it does the job fine!

[BladeRunner 0]

That's the whole frigging point you moron (you started it). They give you crap for 'free' (with NO way of uninstalling it), that in turn kills the better software (which was only a few bucks anyway but ANYONE would rather have something for nothing, right ?), EVERYONE UNDER THE PLANET then ends up using the free/crappy software, and WE PAY FOR IT IN THE END ( a: because it is built into the price of the OS and b: because WE AS THE CONSUMER GET DENIED THE BEST SOFTWARE/TALENT OUT THERE BECAUSE M$ KILLED IT TO GIVE US IT'S SH*T INSTEAD).

 

If that doesn't make any sense to you, sorry but I can't be bothered any further.

 

Does that mean if I say "That doesn't make any sense to me" you'll not post onto this thread any more?

 

In that case, I'm afraid that doesn't make any sense to me what so ever.

Oh, and I still dispute this "MS killed the better software off" the main packages we are talking about here are:

 

1. IE - Still far better than Netscape

2. OE - Hasn't killed anything off, Eudora & Agent are two packages that are still very much going strong.

[sapiens74 0]

We have already established that the Almighty made me unusually handsome and in turn lacking in the eloquence department.

 

That would then explain the excessive use of the "F" word

[lager_brains 0]

That wouldn't be because he totally agrees with you would it?

He shares your outlook on things so he must be correct and the people who think you are talking rubbish are wrong?

 

Sounds very closed minded to me.

 

Rubbish, try again.

 

 

However, and if you want to go into facts, do you know what Netscape did when they realised MS were releasing a rival product?

Nothing!

They didn't attempt to make their product any better, they sat back and decided to rely on their market share to win the battle.

 

Erm, "sat back" ?? Of course they did (silly me).

 

Then IE4 was released, it blew Netscape out of the water and Netscape has been playing catch up ever since.

 

It's called M$ having limitless funds - or.......Monopoly (that's it !)

 

Ah, we see what level we are on now, you use "M$" instead of "MS", that is just soo funny, I still laugh when I see that now.

 

Why ?? Is that the limit of your sense of humour ?

 

Anyway, any company at the top of their field will attempt to stay there, it's the rules of business.

 

It's called anti-competitive actually

 

MS cannot "make somebody bankrupt" only the buying public can do that.

 

Naive. It's called Marketing.

 

Purchasing other companies is a very sound business plan, as long as you have the capitol to do so.

 

It's also VERY poor for innovation.

 

Why spend years developing a product and always having to play catch-up when you can simply purchase a competing product as a base to start on and get yourself onto a level playing field almost immediately?

 

Erm, because it is Monopoly/anti-competitive/starves innovation......you're not getting the hang of this are you ?

 

and of course the world would be so much better if company's didn't partner with one another wouldn't it?

 

I think you'll find AMD processors are blowing Intel out of the water. Does that prove that Intel have always been giving you the best possible all along ? I don't think so !

 

 

Have you ever heard of the saying "You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours"?

What this means is that Intel & Microsoft (Hay, you must have heard of Wintel right?) work together.

One produces the hardware to run the OS (CPU) the other produces the OS to run on the hardware (Windows).

Once again a pretty simple business model.

Of course Windows wont run on AMD processors will it so.....wait a minute, that isn't true at all, kind of blows that conspiracy out of the water doesn't it?

Last time I checked I could buy an Intel CPU WITHOUT the need to purchase Windows.

Also, last MS product I purchased I wasn't forced to buy an Intel CPU at the same time.

 

This proves that you haven't read ANYTHING (or much) about the lawsuits have you....

 

 

And OE, what a piece of crap ! Xnews, written by ONE person and is infinitely better AND FREE (try installing Xnews or uninstalling it and you'd wonder what the fcuk add/remove programs is all about).

 

Please define "crap".

OE is a package designed to send/recieve e-mail and to allow access to and reading of Usenet.

 

How old is OE and in all that time, how much has it changed. Look at my point re: XNews. One person/Free. Why can't M$ do that ? Because it knows it can get away with it.

 

The point I'm making is M$ just offer reconstituted garbage with different coloured buttons and some bug fixes and people go "wow!".

 

The ill-informed maybe, but most people take the time to do the research and this really isn't true.

Windows 2000 was a new OS from the ground up, however it shared the same front end that WinNT & Win98 had been using for years.

People did still go "Wow" after the Win2k release because they were amazed at how good the new OS was.

 

What did it do that NT + USB couldn't ?? Oh but I forgot, W2K is like, how much bigger than NT (on the HD) ?? So, sure, it must do soooooo much more !

 

WinXP as anybody in the industry will tell you is more or less a service release for Win2k, however nobody is being forced to upgrade to it.

It is an important release as at last the two historically different product lines (NT for work, 9x/DOS for home) have been combined into one, with all the advantages that offers.

You really seem to have a low opinion on general computer users,

 

Don't make stupid comments like that please, you don't know me at all.

 

which is a little bit sad.

You seem to think they purchase by name or label and not by what the product can do.

 

WHERE IS THE FRIGGING CHOICE ?? YOU TELL ME ????

 

As somebody who started off his computing career as a salesperson you'd be suprised at how much research "Mr. Average" does before purchase.

 

Ah Salesman. Read expert at lying / low-life.

 

I personally will never buy a single piece of M$ software ever again. They've ripped off the world basically (but the world is wising up).

 

No, what I'm saying is, there is NO piece of M$ software that I'll be duped into buying again. W2K is the last OS I'll ever buy. Same for Office 2000.

 

My work is based on 3DS Max and that of course is Windoze based. Were it also to be available on Mac and Linux then that'd at least give me one very big compelling reason not to pump anymore of my hard earned cash into applications on Windoze.

 

If you feel that MS products do not deliver what you need.

That they cannot offer you the reliability that you demand then do NOT use MS products.

This isn't a difficult concept to udnerstand.

Format your PC, install whichever flavour of Linux you fancy, grab yourself Star Office and away you go.

 

Erm, I don't ONLY use Office. I have around $24000 of software (for ONE person). Oh yes, and I have a dual boot machine with Linux on it (with Star Office <- free software)

 

If however you are saying in this statement "I'll never buy a single MS product again, instead I'll steal them" then that is a totally different matter.

 

No that is not (see above) - but I don't care anymore if someone else does steal M$ software (I used to care but not now)

 

It basically makes all your arguments useless, you slag off the product, tell us how crap they are, yet you add to the statistics as a "Windows user" rather ironic really.

As I said, you do not really indicate which of the two you are from your statement, I'm hoping you are one that sticks by your guns and uses Linux and otehr free software.

If you are a thieving freeloader then any respect I once had for you is out of the window.

 

It's okay Bladerunner, you can carry on respecting me, I NEVER use ***** software. All I use I own/have paid for.

 

API, buggy software, viruses, nothing new (Office 95/97/2000/XP), IE bundling, Java, Realplayer the list goes ON and ON.

 

You really haven't gone into much detail here, you've really just thrown some "buzz-words" around and assumed that is all that needs to be said on the subject, however you really need to go deeper.

When you make such a bold statement along the lines of "All these things are what is wrong with MS products" then you really need to elaborate.

 

Erm, haven't gone into too much detail because it is ALL documented on the net and I don't want to explain any further, geeeeesssh

 

 

IE bundling - How does this not benefit the end user?

 

Yawn... this is SO OLD, where is your head ??

 

The end user is arguably getting the best Windows based browser available, for free

 

Oh, for 'free' is it. I think I'll end my contributions here, you guys are brainwashed.

 

This is boring, you guys are only singing the gospel for M$ because your jobs depend on it and basically you guys are lazy.

 

What a selfish attitude.

 

BTW, Bladerunner, how about answering the point about Sun (saying I think that they were just as bad) ??

[sapiens74 0]

You know you could have saved us all the trouble of scrolling if you just simply said "I don't like Windows"

[Brian Frank 0]

Here's my 2 cents:

 

My biggest gripe about Win2k and XP is that the options of what apps go in are extremely limited---something that was enjoyed with Windows 9x. I would like to not have that stupid Windows messenger (I have gotten directions on how to remove the damned thing here, tho) nor the worthless Movie Maker.

IE ownz. OE ownz. They work very well, and I see no reason not to use either one. Nutscrape blows chunks.

As much as I don't like certain aspects of Microsoft, I have yet to find a better alternative.

Microsoft has conducted legal business practices and has come out on top. Companies like Nutscrape are pissed because they are not in MS postition. If you want the truth that's it. It's not about the consumer being better off, it's because people do not understand anything like competition. It's sad when being a successful company is viewed as being an evil corporation that is out to take over the world and screw us all. I prefer to think the US government is doing a fine job of screwing us, but not MS. I enjoy MS jokes, but I don't see them as an evil corporation. Bill Gates has worked for this--a very foreign concept to a sizeable portion of the US. Gates should be allowed to reap a full harvest, as he has earned it. Yet, the company that he founded is being maligned for doing business and not having competitors that want to work. Instead they ***** and file a lawsuit because they cannot come up with a better product.

 

I stand beside BladeRunner in his views if you don't get the hint. If you don't like any Microsoft products, DON'T USE THEM!!!!

[BladeRunner 0]

I have decided that repeating ones self gets a little bit boring.

I think I'm as guilty of this as anybody, it just annoys me that no matter how many times things are repeated they do go ignored.

I shall just defend my character, usually I don't really mind attacks on my character, it's up to the individual if they wish to do something like that, the fact you are more or less anonymous on the Internet allows you to attack people without real fear of reprisal.

 

Ah Salesman. Read expert at lying / low-life

 

The main reason I left selling PC's is because I was too honest and attempted to cut the cost to customers at any point I could.

When I started selling PC's the 386 was coming to the end of it's life and the 486 SX25 was the processor to own.

I found that I could not work towards sales figures and sell PC's at all cost because after my sales pitch I had usually ended up selling the customer the cheapest PC. That is all they needed however my sales-team boss would rather I had bumped them up to a higher model.

If I could discount I did.

I will not be called either a lier or a low-life, neither of those descriptions fitted when I was a salesperson and they certainly do not fit me now I'm a Systems Administrator.

 

That is all I really wanted to add at this point, I think I've made my case very clear.

It is strange, people always get really confused when somebody defends MS.

They first usually accuse you of working for MS - I'm sorry but if I was employed by MS I probably wouldn't have the time to take part in forum's like this and my contract would probably not allow me to enter into discussions of this nature.

Then they tell you that you are "brainwashed" or it's because your "job depends on it".

 

At the moment my current job is predominantly Microsoft based.

However I am Novell qualified and my last job was at a Novell site.

Sure the workstations were still MS, but the servers were Novell ones.

I also have a working knowledge of Linux, I need that for my current job, as I said a post or so ago about 25-30% of our servers/workstations are Linux and I need to be able to support these as well as I do so the MS ones.

 

I defend MS because I work with their products on a daily basis.

I work in the computer industry where all this anti-Microsoft rubbish isn't actually all that common.

It's only the Linux boys and "fan-sites" that attack MS on a daily basis, all the contacts I have in the industry just sit back and laugh when we read the latest "Anti-MS slogan" or similar and then get on with our work.

Sure we all have days when we shout "bloody Microsoft" or "Bloody pile of crap Windows" but everybody has a bad day.

I certainly do not consider myself lazy, if I were then I would not be working in the position I am doing now.

 

I'm sorry if you do not like Microsoft or Windows.

That is truely your prerogative.

However if you are just "jumping on the bandwagon" then I pitty you once you do get into the industry, a closed totally anti-MS mind will not allow you to climb anywhere.

An IT Manager for example has to be able to objectively look at all solutions available and choose the best based on it's merits.

He/She doesn't sit back and say "Well we wont choose that one, it's an MS solution".

 

I'm not going to try and sound all important, well actually maybe I will because I have the qualifications and position in the industry.

I'm afraid you are lacking knowledge in some key areas (saying WinNT 4 being no different to Win2k for example when it was a total code re-write).

I shall not argue with you any more, I shall post if you decide to attack my character again, but I've read the points you've gone over and indeed I have read each and every one of your posts in this thread and I can see nothing that truely counters the points I've made.

So your oportunity lies ahead, as long as your post doesn't contain an attack on my character you can get the last word in!!

[lager_brains 0]

Quote:

SUN are a bigger bunch of crooks than Microsoft, yet everybody loves them because "they are anti-Microsoft".
I wonder where we truely would be right now with respect to OS's in general if Microsoft hadn't done what they have done.

Okay BladeRunner, thanks for the last word.

Can you explain (this is the THIRD time I've asked you this) when and how SUN have been the bigger bunch of crooks ??


;(

[Bursar 0]

Unfortunately this debate is likely to rage from now until the end of time, in much the same way that the Intel v AMD wars rage on.

 

There is no clear desicive outcome.

 

Microsoft Operating Systems and applications are the cornerstone of most businesses throughout the world. These business are also trying to make money. If they could lose from the budget sheet the annual spend on software and hardware upgrades, they would. The fact that they keep buying MS products means that they are the best tools for the job.

 

There are plenty of other office suites that run on various platforms, and they mostly offer compatibility with MS Office file versions, but are they in use in large organisations? No.

 

There are various factors as to why this could be including the amount of time/money involved in retraining, but if it offered long term benefits, do you not think that companies would move over to these other prodcuts?

 

The fact that they haven't speaks volumes. Yes, there are some jobs that I wouldn't trust to a Windows server (such as 24/7 web serving on a very active site), but there are plenty of others who do.

 

At the end of the day you pick the tools that suit the job you are going to be doing. At the moment the best tools for the job (as far as Operating Systems on desktop and mid-range servers are concerned) are supplied MS.

 

On the CPU side, we have AMD to fight Intel. Some of these fights they win, some they lose, but until an AMD of the software world appears (and can take on MS on the OS and application front), this battle will rage, and MS will continue to be seen as the bad boy by many.

 

Linux may be OK for some, but it isn't ready for prime time. When you can walk into your local PC shop, pick up a PC with Linux installed, and be able to talk to someone on the end of a phone who can help you out, then maybe more than just the tech-heads will be prepared to look at it. But until then, the best bet for home and business users is Microsoft.

 

The fact that 3D Studio Max (a major piece of software in use by companies with plenty of money) is in use on Windows platforms speaks volumes. If there was a viable market for a Linux version, do you not think that one would have been produced?

 

Sorry if this sounds like an 'I love MS' rant, but at the moment, I don't see any viable alternatives.

[Alien 1]

Quote:

What I mean is explain yourself in a mature manner. Namecalling and yelling at people will not get anyone to take you seriously. You're just branded as "another bored 13 year old to be ignored."

Exactly.

Quote:

Here, pay close attention, let me show you:

Sorry Alien, but all that method does is remove access to IE via shortcuts. It removes your shortcuts to it. The little description at the bottom of the window tells you this when you highlight that option. IE has been highly integrated into Windows and is a requirement for Active Desktop, many Windows Explorer functions, etc. You could find other ways to remove IE, but it would cause much more trouble than it's worth.

See how easy it is to be an adult pilsner_head?

Thankyou for your politeness, having checked again I see that you are indeed correct.

As to MS & the monopoly issue - well I was going to state my opinion, but then I stopped & asked myself "what's the point?"

[Davros 0]

Yawn...

 

**thud**

[three 0]

Quote:

Hi there Three, you seem to have a more balanced/mature attitude than some of the others here (especially that Sapiens74).

That wouldn't be because he totally agrees with you would it?
He shares your outlook on things so he must be correct and the people who think you are talking rubbish are wrong?
Sounds very closed minded to me.

First off, I don't "totally" agree with anybody ok? Just wanted to make that clear.

Ok, I think most of the ppl here are missing the whole point. The whole issue stems around anti-competitivness and Microsofts business ethics. Unless Microsoft is broken up, we will NEVER see any competition. Microsoft is just too large of a company (and still growing) and with their so called 'ethics' will simply smother any competition out there (illegally of course).

As for Netscape, I really don't think Microsoft was after them because of browsers. Netscape was into server side and that's where the threat lies. So with the browsers providing a source of income for Netscape, Microsoft used their monopoly on the OS industry to 'bundle/integrate' into their OS to starve them out. I would seriously consider that unjust/unfair wouldn't you?

As for the statement on Microsofts codes being re-written, but as far as I know (and I could be wrong, I most of the time am ) but aren't the codes top secret? How is one to know that codes are re-written?

Anyways, gotta get ready for work...and again I will clarify that I'm NOT ANTI-MICROSOFT PRO-LINUX, but I AM Anti-Anti-Competitiveness.

[serket 0]

Quote:

So basically, you are unable to see further than the end of your nose ?

Selfish, right ?

They don't have the BEST OS around you clot, they have the most popular.

Sheeeeesh

Apperently you cant see under your *** You like a moody girl who's whining about anything she doesnt like. Look up what word business means! it's not a charity.

Oh and for erm mature way of speaking as you mentioned before i think you lack that a lot

Have fun changing the world kid

[lager_brains 0]

Firstly, I've noticed that BladeRunner STILL hasn't explained his comment about SUN being even bigger crooks than M$ (after asking now the 4th time) - so I can only assume he doesn't know what he is talking about and that he made that bit up. Maybe he hasn't shaken off his traits of his past life as a Salesman and with embellishing the truth.......

 

Anyway, to serket, erm, you haven't noted my comments, you just claim that I am a moody young girl (both of which are incorrect) - so to you too, you know nothing.

 

I agree again, with Three (sorry Three !) - but I also am neither Pro Linux - it isn't ready to take on Windoze yet.

 

And I also agree to a large extent with Bursar.

 

So I'm not completely unreasonable !

 

My take on things are that the OS should be free, open source (as Linux), note I don't mean LINUX as it currently stands, I mean as the current BUSINESS MODEL with companies like M$ ONLY making applications software. Then we'll see how successful M$ would be on an EVEN playing field.

 

M$ are like the owners of most roads, most petrol stations and they make cars. Guess whose cars perform best ??

 

THAT IS MY GRIPE !

 

P.S. In the UK, the M$ technical support STINKS (2 incidents per PRODUCT)