Win2k Clients, Win2k Server, Roaming Profiles, SLOW LOGIN!!!

[HELLBRINGER 0]

At work, we have a Win2k server, and several Win2k Clients, all users have a roaming profile. The profiles are on the server. Each profile is under 10 MB.

 

When anyone logs into their computer, it is REALLY SLOW. Like, it takes about 10 minutes for them to get on. Which is way to slow. We do have a 10 MBPS HUB, but I know it can't be that slow. I've tried a 100 MBPS switch but that seemed to make no difference in speed.

 

What is going on? I can't seem to find why it is going so slow.

 

Can anyone help?

 

Thanks!

[HELLBRINGER 0]

I tried a few of those things that sort of fit the subject and they did not work...

 

My problem is NOT viewing sharred files or connections. It is simply logging in on a Win2k client, which is connected to a domain, on a win2k server. There are shares on the server, but that is it. I don't see what could be causing this to go so slow!!!

 

There has to be something to fix this...

 

Any other ideas?

[DosFreak 2]

Check the size of the profiles. Roaming profiles can be fast.....if the profile is small. If not then you will experience the behavior that you currently are. Also verify that the NICS settings on the client/server are configured correctly and that your not exceeding the ether length specs.

[HELLBRINGER 0]

The profiles are each under 10 MB. It should NOT take 20 minutes for even the 10 MBPS connection to download that. Something is wrong...

 

What do you mean by the NIC settings being correct? Can you explain in more detail please? And what do you mean by length specs? The Cat5 cable length? I know it cannot exceed 100 meters, and it is not. The longest cable in this room is probably only 20 meters long. I don't know what that is in english I don't use english units.

 

Thanks

[DS3Circuit 0]

An addendum to everyone elses input, in the use of roaming profiles, there are registry keys to be set on the clients where you can specify which folders not to be included in the roaming profiles ... ie. TEMP folders.

 

How to Debug roaming profiles.

http://www.windows2000faq.com/Articles/Index.cfm?ArticleID=15091

 

Exclude Certain Folders

http://www.windows2000faq.com/Articles/Index.cfm?ArticleID=15112

 

Oh and of course ... pin the speed on your nics and ports

[HELLBRINGER 0]

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DosFreak brings up an EXCELLENT point: Hardware... it's TOO easy for us most of the time to get caught-up in software-centric viewpoints only!

(I often do!)

Network Packets Collisions may be an issue here as well as his mention of the size of the profile data.

I have checked and considered this area as well to a basic degree. I tried of one of my 100MPBP switches from home to see if that would make things move faster. It didn't. Right now, we are using a switched HUB, I think... something like that, its a large, 24-port 10mbps HP-brand HUB. Only 6 computers ara connected to it with the exception of the other side of the network which contains a DSL connection. At the end of this, I will explain the network setup.

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QUESTIONS:

1.) Do you have any means of checking if your network is "healthy"?

(Because a bad NIC in the mix can mess things up ROYALLY... for the WHOLE segment it's on in fact)

Not really, what is the best way to do this? I'm pretty sure that all comptuers cannot have a bad NIC. But one, maybe. How do I go about checking these things?

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2.) Hubs or Switches in use over there??

HUBs, all HP-brand. All 24-port.

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3.) How many nodes as well???

On this segment, the only segment, approx. 85 nodes exist, while only 25 (approx.) are in use.

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4.) Are all nodes there on the same segment & what-not as well????

Yes, all nodes are on the same network segment.

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If everyone's on the same segment, and there is say (I have had this happen) a person doing Access programming or VB programming using JET, & his program does ALOT of querying for data, it can HOSE the performance of the entire segment.

I have talked to all staff members, no one is running any such program. There are no performance issues on the network, except for the typical, and expected performance of an 10mbps connection. The only problem, is this.

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APK

P.S.=> Yes, more to look into, & I for one need more data from you if those possibilties have been exhausted at this point from above, they have often helped (especially using LMHOSTS stuff as I have seen Clutch bail alot of folks out of jams with)... this almost sounds network hardware related at this point! apk

thanks for all your help so far, hopfully we can resolve this!!

[HELLBRINGER 0]

I will now explain the network setup the best I can... It would be eaiser to draw it... heh, maybe i'll draw it and scan it then show you guys. But for now:

 

This is a very interesting, and simple network. We have two buildings, the buildings are approx 175-200 meters apart. It would be VERY impractical to setup any wire-to-wire comm. for this, and very expensive. So we have setup a wireless bridge. 2 access points, with two 14 dB gain antennas pointing at each other from each building. This connection has been up nearly 8 months so far, and problems have been very minimal (simple, mediocure things like someone unplugging the WAP).

 

In one the building, we have 6 computers connected to a HUB, that runs at 10MBPS. And obviously a cable going to the WAP on this side of the building.

 

In the other building, we have 8 computers (soon to be MANY more) and a DSL connection via a Cisco modem/router. The WAP on this side goes to a HUB, where a connection to 3 other computers is, another HUB, and obviously the WAP and DSL connection. The connected HUB, hasa 5 computers connected to it. All HUBs are HP-brand and are 10 mbps. If I remember correctly, they say something like "switched" on them or something... Which confuses me really, heh. I will confirm that later.

 

Anyway, that is the setup. I hope this helps.

 

Thanks for all the help guys.

[HELLBRINGER 0]

Yes I beleive the HUBs are switched. This is why I don't think the problem is hardware related. I think it is software. This problem never used to exist, until recently and it has been getting worse over time. Yet I don't see how a 10 MB or less profile can take 20 minutes to be transferred! That is insanely slow!

 

But all the problems i am talking about are on one side of the wireless link, so it's all happening in the HUB. None of that data should be going over to the other building. So I DO NOT think the slowdown has ANYTHING to do with the wireless part of the network.

 

Also you mentioned possible interference. Yes, this is quite possible. I'm sure there is some, but the link seems quite stable for the distance it has, and objects in the way. For example, a tree. Don't ask how it is getting through the tree, the signal could be bouncing off houses and streets and cars and such in the neighborhood. I will see if I can take some pictures to show you this setup, it's quite interesting. As for hackers, it's possible, but I doubt it. The data is encrypted at 64 bits I believe. Not impossible to crack, but I don't think anyone would care to spend the time to crack this, all data travelling over that link is useless to anyone anyway. It's just internet and stuff.

 

I will try some network tools, can you suggest any?

 

We do not have any XP machines here, so the TM will not be possible in this case.

 

I'm pretty sure this problem is software oriented. Can anyone think of any other ideas to fix this. I can't seem to find the problem.

[HELLBRINGER 0]

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Well, one lousy NIC can throw the whole show into the can... it can & does happen!

A way to eliminate that is to pull the nodes one by one & have them logon while that particular person is NOT online, & see if you still drag once you have gone thru them all eliminating the "bad-seed" in the mix!

(Yes... a hassle!)

That seems kind of weird, but will check into it. It would be a pain in the ass but I'll see what I can do. Maybe there is a diagnostic program I can use on the NICs.

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Ok... by software, do you mean like a new driver update gone bad for some of that equipment, or possibly a Windows Update that hosed it?

OR, something a user installed into the mix that affects your whole LAN there??

Ummm, no, I don't think so. I don't know. I think it has something to do with Windows. I don't understand, but I have a preminition it is software based problem, but I could be wrong. I'll see if I can figure something out.

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You sure that switch is running 100% still? Could be it's on its way out... that does happen too! Something to test...

Like I mentioned in the beginning, I tried one of my 100 MBPS full switch that I know works fine, I noticed no performance increase from a 10 MBPS hub to a 100 MBPS switch. That shows something is weird.

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You're probably right about that, it's bouncing all over the place & broadcasts not in a "shaped-charge" type wave (shaped by conical device/shield) but more like a ripple on a pond I'd imagine, circularly/spherically outwards from the center broadcasting point!

That seems logical and I'm pretty sure thats what is happening. But I have not really noticed much degration or failures in the signal, it's just slow which is expected.

Well I will of course try these things and options and see what I can do. Thanks very much for all your help. If you get any other ideas please tell me. I hope to get this resolved. Thanks a bunch...

[Toby 0]

Set the nics on ALL machines including the server to 10/half duplex.

 

Since the hub is only 10mbps the nics cant do anymore than 10/half duplex.

 

Too many times I've seen nics that don't work with auto-setting to ever use it. Some nic sets itself to 100 or full duplex and make the network to have extreamly bad performace just as you describe.

 

/Toby

[RobEubank 0]

Quote:

At work, we have a Win2k server, and several Win2k Clients, all users have a roaming profile. The profiles are on the server. Each profile is under 10 MB.

When anyone logs into their computer, it is REALLY SLOW. Like, it takes about 10 minutes for them to get on. Which is way to slow. We do have a 10 MBPS HUB, but I know it can't be that slow. I've tried a 100 MBPS switch but that seemed to make no difference in speed.

What is going on? I can't seem to find why it is going so slow.

Can anyone help?

We use roaming profiles and have several hundred users with profiles ranging anywhere from 10MB to 2GB. As was stated earlier, a lot of what gets stored when a user logs out is useless information. Go into one of the slow users' profile directory on the server and see if Temporary Internet Files is being cached. When it comes to crazy logins I've seen permissions and settings on that particular folder wreak havoc on login efficiency. While you're there, look in the "recent" folder it caches document shortcuts (sometimes "really" there are thousands of links there). A final but viable resort is to have a user log out, rename their ntuser.dat file in their profile. This will reset much of their profile to the default settings. Before they log out make sure you drag anything of value from their profile into their new environment or it will get wiped out when they log out. This includes, Favorites, and any files from their desktop. I highly suggest you try this on yourself first (you can back up your own profile to a workstation for a failsafe before you get started). This way you can check if it's a systematic problem or aggregate user data clogging the system.

You might also want to check Network, Memory and CPU utilization on your server. Your lag times may be the server reaching a bottleneck threshold in one of these areas. Also, you might want to closely inspect your servers' network cable. It may be a possible culprit as well. I've seen cables that link and talk very well but crap out with any appreciable activity. A close look at your servers' event log should help if it's any of these. You may have to adjust your auditing though.

Lastly, it might be worth your time to install a sniffer on your network and see if one of your workstations is broadcasting data due to Trojan, Filesharing, KaZaa or just users sucking up your available pipe listening to the radio on their workstations.

I realize this is a lot of data but hopefully it will help you isolate some of your issues.

[Toby 0]

The reason for setting it to half duplex is that hubs do not support full duplex. At least they did not 2-3 years ago, I have not seen a hub since then (and i'm glad for it )

 

And that you brougt your switch from home can still suffer from the same problem. We have Intel nics and 3com switches here at work and have to set them to 100/full duplex on both or the performace goes way down, lots of crc-errors on transfers. No Auto !

 

Hope you get it to work.

 

 

/Toby

[DS3Circuit 0]

Strange

 

We have 3com 1100 and 3300 switches whose nodes connect to Intel 10/100 nics .... the nics are NOT pinned.

 

We have been slowly migrating to cisco 2950s

 

And going with the wireless machines in the domain ... I have yet to see machines in a domain, with a wireless nic receive the proper security contexts and/or policies. Check your event logs for netlogon and userenv errors.

 

This may be causing your roaming profile errors ...

 

Granted I havent used the "latest" drivers since december ... but wireless nics from cisco 350s to dlink "generic" crap wouldnt correctly function in a domain environment.

[HELLBRINGER 0]

Thank you all for the help! A lot of excellent suggestions! I will try them as soon as I get back to work. Thanks!

[HELLBRINGER 0]

Well I have tried nearly all of these suggestions and none have helped. I will try a few more of them when I get time again at work. I don't know what the deal is.

 

I did run a benchmark on the wireless system, using SiSoft Sandra software. From one building to the other building's servere and vice a versa. And was pleased to see an average of 720 kbps. Pings averaged from 3-10 ms. and there was no packet loss. I will try some other time during different weather conditions and such see if it makes a difference.

 

Anyway, off I go. I will try more stuff soon.

[DosFreak 2]

Try a sniffer. Should have been the first suggestion really.

[HELLBRINGER 0]

I did, not a lot going on. Just some file transfers, simple "talking" going on. I saw no major files or anything that would slow down the network...

[HELLBRINGER 0]

You know... Maybe it's time to get out the old trusty shot gun...

 

Hopfully I will figure it out. I just got a new linux server up, for our firewall, cache, and content filtering. Working awesome!!!