The moment - ATI or Nvidia?

[jdulmage 0]

I've been researching this for a while now, so I don't really need any technical information on this, just some thoughts from various mature, professional tech users.

 

I'm used to the "ati sucks" and "nvidia sucks" and I just can't stand it and need a real response on this from users with the experience.

 

It's either going to be ATI Radeon 9500 Pro or GeForce 4 TI 4400, looking at benchmarks and reviews (i've looked at over 10 reviews on both cards in comparsion tests, etc.) and have come to believe that the ATI Radeon 9500 Pro is better than the GeForce 4 TI 4400 (even the 4600 was losing sometimes), HOWEVER, I hear the age ol' story of:

 

"But their drivers suck"

 

I know that ATI has gone a long way in the catalyst drivers.

 

So I'm asking you? Is the "drivers suck" situation as bad as people make it out to be and which path should I take on this?

 

Thanks

[jdulmage 0]

Quote:

They're both great companies, with great products...

However, myself now, were I to go buy? Even speaking now as an NVidia user currently in the GeForce Ti4600 VisionTek unit, I have to say the better buy now is ATI Radeon type products!

Alot of folks here use those & say their drivers are now SOLID as iron... good news for you, & the ATI stuff GENERALLY costs less for more performance "pound-for-pound"/pixel-for-pixel.

(Especially their All-In-Wonder 9700 series... all the multimedia & TV hookup stuff PLUS the gaming speeds! DosFreak & Clutch have been looking @ those, & probably in great detail... PM them if they don't reply here!)



* In short, were I to buy now? I'd have to admit I'd go ATI... just as much power, if not more, & usually for less...

APK

P.S.=> I have not tried a more powerful GeForce FX type of NVidia card OR an ATI Radeon type etc., i.e.-> one more powrerful than my current card, but others here may have owned both...

I'd have to say that they'd be your BEST reference, due to 'hands-on' use of both types of products from both OEM's... apk

I'd like to see you reply to someone using one sentence

[jdulmage 0]

Quote:

Quote:

I'd like to see you reply to someone using one sentence

Hey... it's as long as your post was! lol...

Well, I figure posts are like being a reference manual: The user requires complete & accurate information, I give as much as I can & as accurately as is possible.

(This comes from work-habits, doing reports etc., hard habit to break, sorry!)



* Ohhh, I guess... What can you do, you know? This field's loaded with information & variation plus change... sometimes, you have to post a ton to get a point across!

APK

P.S.=> It's easier to expound that much info. in speech, no question, but typing? Well, the "baud rates TOO slow"... apk

I agree. I work as a computer support technician and constantly need to be 100% clear, especially with "n00bs" on the other line.

haha

[gilgamesh 0]

I would have to agree with Alec. I too am currently an Nvidia user but if I was going to buy a card anytime soon, it would definitely be an ATI. ATI has proven itself to be much better than I previously had seen it. ATI has quality products, so go for the ATI.

[adamvjackson 0]

On a somewhat-related note, wondering if anyone else saw this article over at Warp2Search.

 

A brief summary:

 

"Website Spong posted that we may have to face an unpleasant change in the way we know gaming. Right now we are all PC gamers. If it comes to what they outline there will soon be Nvidia and ATI gamers. Spong claims to have learned from insiders that Valve Software is currently investigating to make Half-Life 2 exclusive to Nvidia hardware. Half-Life was originally published in 1998 and brought innovations to the genre still referred to today.

 

Spong also reports that both chipmakers have been in negotiations with game developers for such exclusivity deals for quite some time. More details are said to be revealed at this years E3."

[DosFreak 2]

Rumour

Speculation

Inuendo

 

[adamvjackson 0]

I absolutely agree, and it is most likely just rumors, but interesting nonetheless.

[mezron 0]

Quote:

On a somewhat-related note, wondering if anyone else saw this article over at Warp2Search.

A brief summary:

"Website Spong posted that we may have to face an unpleasant change in the way we know gaming. Right now we are all PC gamers. If it comes to what they outline there will soon be Nvidia and ATI gamers. Spong claims to have learned from insiders that Valve Software is currently investigating to make Half-Life 2 exclusive to Nvidia hardware. Half-Life was originally published in 1998 and brought innovations to the genre still referred to today.

Spong also reports that both chipmakers have been in negotiations with game developers for such exclusivity deals for quite some time. More details are said to be revealed at this years E3."

Is it "Exclusive" to NVidia hardware or "optimized"? Seems to me they'd have to intentionally break things for the game to not run on the other cards especially if the game is essentially a D3D or OpenGL game. Unless NVidia is going to pull a Glide on us all... I don't miss those days.

Jim

[WRX_Rocky 0]

Being an old Matrox user, then NVidia user, and an ATi hater (old story about how ATi cheated with their drivers to make it appear faster than the Matrox coards) . . . . . . I have to admit that I bought the Radeon 9700 PRO and LOVE IT! With my old GF3, when I got the Shrouded Isles addon for Dark Age of Camelot I was getting frame pauses like you would not believe! The game was totally unplayable. I went and dumped my entire PIII 933 and got an AMD XP2600+ and ASUS A7N8X mobo. I tried the Ti 4200, Ti4400, and a Ti4600 8X - and all still had a frame rate hit. Then I tried the 9700 PRO and it was smooth as silk. And the quality was awesome! So, even though I bit my tongue and went against my feelings, I must admit I was impressed and now glad I did. So I'd say go with the ATi.

[jdulmage 0]

well, all signs are pointing to an Radeon Pro 9500 or 9700.

 

So looks like that's what i'm going for when the time comes.

 

Thanks, I appreciate it.

 

On a side note...there is NO possible way to make a game video card-strict. Yes, it can detect the card and say "Non-Nvidia Card Unsupported" or something, but it'll just mean another run of the DOJ and secondly, there will always be cracks to get past that

 

see ya!

[vorlonw2k 0]

I've used a number of video cards over the years.

 

Yes, once the ATI drivers did bite it badly, they are doing 100% better.

 

Purchasing, remember ATI backs their cards.

I bought a VisionTek and over night they were gone.

Warranty? We don't need no stink-in warranties. right?

Nvidia do not support the cards only the chips.

 

I have a 9700 pro and it has run like a champ, I am very pleased.

 

At the moment ATI is beating Nvidia at their own game.

[ViolentGreen 0]

Quote:

...Valve Software is currently investigating to make Half-Life 2 exclusive to Nvidia hardware

That would be a huge mistake on the part of Valve. The 9700 is generally considered to be the best card available (last time I checked) and they would be alienating a large portion of the PC gaming community. People aren't going to scrap a $400 card so that they can play a $50 game.

I seriously doubt that Valve/Sierra would even consider doing this

[BladeRunner 0]

I can't see it happening.

Release a game and you've potentially got every single PC owner as a customer.

Restrict a release to NVidia only and you've immediately lost 30-40% of your potential market.

More importantly people will say "Well I'll never buy from that company again".

Not only have they lost 30-40% of potential sales on that game, they have in turn then lost 20-30% of potential customers for life.

[clutch 1]

The only reason why I would consider getting an ATi card would be to get an All-In-Wonder unit for TV support, along with its wonderful DVD playback ability. As a gaming card, I wouldn't touch it no matter how fast it runs something right now since they have proven over and over again that they will drop support for a previous generation product as soon as they come out with something new. Now, while I am sure that they are making many changes in their architecture with each release of chips (while nVidia's share many similarities in their lineage) they should still have a driver team that tries to tweak and tune their older stuff, even if it's just the previous generation. I would like to get the 9700 AIW, but I wonder what will happen when the 9800 AIW comes out and if they will be different enough for ATi to stop working on drivers for the 9700. Hence, no drive to buy the card right now.

[adamvjackson 0]

I pretty much agree with everything you said, Clutch. I think, to a degree, that the ATI hardware may be superior, but the driver support has always fallen short when compared to Nvidia's.

[mezron 0]

Quote:

I pretty much agree with everything you said, Clutch. I think, to a degree, that the ATI hardware may be superior, but the driver support has always fallen short when compared to Nvidia's.

I'd have to agree also, but from a different angle. NVidia has always had very good designs and drivers. I've been very happy with NVidia since the TnT days. I'm not going to just jump ship to ATI because they're experiencing a little trouble at the moment. And really, there just isn't a game out there that requires the perfomance difference that a 9700 offers over my Ti 4200. I'm not a benchmarker so the extra fps in Quake3 don't mean anything to me.

Jim

[WRX_Rocky 0]

Quote:

I can't see it happening.
Release a game and you've potentially got every single PC owner as a customer.
Restrict a release to NVidia only and you've immediately lost 30-40% of your potential market.
More importantly people will say "Well I'll never buy from that company again".
Not only have they lost 30-40% of potential sales on that game, they have in turn then lost 20-30% of potential customers for life.

Well, I seem to remember that one of the Wing Commander games(not sure which - WC, WC2, or was it WC3???) spelled doom for the 486 CPU. In its ad it came straight out and said PENTUIM ONLY. Now granted it is not a video card, but it DID change things big time.

[adamvjackson 0]

Quake did that as well.

[DosFreak 2]

Yes, but they still ran on my 486DX4/100.

 

Quake 1 in 320X240! ARRRRGGGHH! Back to Duke3D in 800x600+!

[WRX_Rocky 0]

Quote:

And really, there just isn't a game out there that requires the perfomance difference that a 9700 offers over my Ti 4200. I'm not a benchmarker so the extra fps in Quake3 don't mean anything to me.

Well, just a few FPS in Quake won't even be seen to an extent. But in DAoC with the new Shrouded Isles pak, there was a huge frame hit that made it unplayable to me, using the same screen settings as I always used in the game. I tried all the Ti cards (even the 8X ones), but they still had hits. The 9700 PRO ran smmothly. I am not bashing NV at all, just saying this time they lost.

[Mr.Guvernment 0]

All i have to say

 

ATi drivers sucks - is an OLD argument that no longer holds true - it is all hardcore NVIDIA fans can come up with to try and put down ATI now that they are kicking nvidia into the ground

 

 

the 9500 has Dx9 support the ti's don't

 

 

Do not get an old g4 card - as with in a short time they will be paper weights. Give it a few months if you can until ATI's full new range of cards is out.

 

 

Now, you can get a 9500 (not pro) and flash it to become a 9700 pro! so that would be your best bet for sure.

 

If you possibly wait until the 9200 and 9600 come out (9800 is out now) - then the cards you are looking @ now will be cheaper and a higher end card maybe in sight - as the 9700 pro is already @ $300 US and will likely drop to about $250 once the 9800 become more availible - which is a great price for a wicked card.

 

 

I myself have a ti4600 and a 9700 pro

[jdulmage 0]

Quote:

All i have to say

ATi drivers sucks - is an OLD argument that no longer holds true - it is all hardcore NVIDIA fans can come up with to try and put down ATI now that they are kicking nvidia into the ground


the 9500 has Dx9 support the ti's don't


Do not get an old g4 card - as with in a short time they will be paper weights. Give it a few months if you can until ATI's full new range of cards is out.


Now, you can get a 9500 (not pro) and flash it to become a 9700 pro! so that would be your best bet for sure.

If you possibly wait until the 9200 and 9600 come out (9800 is out now) - then the cards you are looking @ now will be cheaper and a higher end card maybe in sight - as the 9700 pro is already @ $300 US and will likely drop to about $250 once the 9800 become more availible - which is a great price for a wicked card.


I myself have a ti4600 and a 9700 pro

9600 pro is quite funny, it is actually a slower card than the 9500 pro, because it only has 4 pipes, and the 9500 has 8 pipes. 9600 has a faster clock, but gaming wise, is slower.

On another note, I considered going with 9500 non-pro and blasting it to a 9700, however, I have no clue how to do that, nor do I know which brand and type of card to buy.

[BladeRunner 0]

The 9500 only has 4 pipelines.

The 9500Pro has 8.

Whereas historically the only difference between the Pro and standard models is clock speed this is not the case with the 9500 cards.

[Mr.Guvernment 0]

Quote:

On another note, I considered going with 9500 non-pro and blasting it to a 9700, however, I have no clue how to do that, nor do I know which brand and type of card to buy.

it is considerably easy - well would be to me. if u want good info go over to

http://oc-forums.com - VERY smart people over there, and many people ask the same thing you do! just check out "video and sound cards and then go to the ATI