Please Help

[iano200 0]

Hi i need help with installing mandrake 10 on the same system as windows xp as im a new user to Linux i need help with any info that you have on partioning the hdd.The size of the hdd is 74.4GB.The Format of disk is NTFS if that helps any way. Any Help would help alot.

[Dapper Dan 0]

Could I talk you into using Mandrake 9.0 instead? With the updates, 9.0 is extremely stable, and it's hardware detection is VERY good. Whichever version you use, I would get a hold of Partition Magic and reduce the size of your NTFS partition enough to take the Mandrake install. I usually shrink Windows by half, leaving the other half for Linux.

 

Once that is done, install Mandrake. Mandrake has an excellent partitioning tool that is very easy to figure out. Create three partitions, "/", "swap" and "home", in the blank space you created with Partition Magic.

 

Your swap should be at least 3 times the size of your ram. I usually make my / and /home partitions approximately the same size. Be sure to use either ext3 or reiserfs for your file system. I personally prefer reiserfs. Then follow the directions for installation.

 

Back up all valuable Windows files BEFORE doing any partitioning. There is never a guarantee it will work out. Also, be sure to create a boot floppy for Mandrake when the install gives you the opportunity. Make a boot floppy of Windows as well! That way, if anything goes wrong, you'll still have a bootable OS with which to fix problems.

 

Be prepared to fail and have to try again! Hopefully, everything will go smoothly the first time. There is a good chance though that something may go wrong. After all, you are in uncharted territory and may have to try more than once to get it right. Learn from your mistakes, and try again until you get it right. Eventually you'll succeed, and will have learned a great deal in the process.

 

I hope this helps.

[iano200 0]

Thanks man that really helps.

Any more help would be great.

[danleff 0]

I agree with Dapper Dan. If you choose Mandrake 9, no problems with the partitioning.

 

If you go with Mandrake 10, then use PartitionMagic to downsize your NTFS partition, then make an ext3 partition at the end for Mandrake 10. When you install 10, just point it to the ext3 partition that you reserved for it.

 

Make sure before you do anything, that you defrag the NTFS partition in Windows first. This avoids any possibility of files being stuck at the end of the drive/partition being caught in the changes of the partitions.

 

With Mandrake 9, you avoid the kernel 2.6 problem with altering the NTFS partition, so that Windows becomes unbootable.

 

If you use Mandrake 10, make the partitions first, as noted above (with PartitionMagic), BEFORE the installation. This avoids any conflicts with PartitionMagic later on if you decide to add another distro or change your partitioning scheme.

 

The only reason that you may choose to use Mandrake 10, is if you have realy new hardware, such as SATA drives or a really wiz bang new video card.

 

 

[Dapper Dan 0]

danleff, just two nights ago, I partitioned a hard drive that had an existing XP install, shrinking the NTFS partition by half with Partition Magic 8, and creating new Linux partitions in the empty space with the Fedora one partitioner.

 

Is the problem we've been seeing caused by the Mandrake 10 partitioning utility, or with the 2.6 kernel? Seems like I remember there were similar problems with Fedora Core two.

 

If iano200 (wisely ) decides to go with "9", he shouldn't encounter those problems with its partitioning utility should he?

[danleff 0]

Correct. He should not have a problem with Mandrake 9.

 

It has been reporetd that the problem does lie in the kernel as noted here.

 

To quote the article;

 

Quote:

The reports of other users suggest that if new partitions are created during FC2 installation, then Disk Druid will create a new partition table using the geometry 38760,16,63 because Disk Druid uses parted. In this case, Windows will not boot. If new partitions are not created during FC2 installation, that is, the current partition table is used, then Disk Druid will not create a new partition table. In this case, Windows will boot.

 

What is needed is a method of overriding the disk geometry that the 2.6 kernel is using during installation and thereafter. This can be done by using a kernel parameter.

 

[martouf 0]

the 2.6 kernel itself can't be the culprit, per se, as it does not

write to a disk unless some process makes a write request.

 

the MDK 10 culprit must be a portion of the installation process

where a partitioning utility is invoked to create and new partition table

and filesystem layout.

 

using a known good (plays well with others) partition tool like Partition Magic

is a valid strategy to avoid letting the bad partition tool muck things up.

 

may I also suggest Drive Image 7 and external storage media to ensure

you can "go back" if something goes badly wrong during your

first MDK installation experiments?

 

 

[blackpage 0]

Greetings iano200,

 

as mentioned above, there can be issues with dual-booting on XP-machines that you plan to embroider with a kernel 2.6 based linux (such as MDK10, Fedora Core 2 etc.). In the "worstest" case you cold even end up with a machine that will neither boot linux nor XP.

 

To avoid any possible hassle and data loss, please, do as emphasized above: back up everything from your harddisk that is of any significance before you start the installation/re-paritioning.

 

Secondly, perhaps you'd like to inform beforehand about what could happen and why it happens at all. The Internet is stuffed with good articles about the kernel 2.6/MBR issue (master boot record). For your convenience I'll add this link that you might want to follow ...

 

Kernel 2.6/MBR problem description/solution:

http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2004-May/msg00908.html

 

The other thing I'd like to mention is that you won't be able to do much with an NTFS-partition under linux. Reading data is possible but enabling write-support in the kernel is considered "experimental" (=dangerous), and this is not going to change any time soon as MS won't publish any details about "NTFS". Why they don't is one of the "4 big Microsnot"-questions (others are "Why can't IE do stylesheets properly?", "Will XP service pack 3 break the 1GB barrier?" and "Where do you want to go today?"

 

In real life terms this means: You can copy some file over to a linux partition, edit the file, but you can't get it back to NTFS to further process the file under Windows. The solutions for this matter are: a) either set up a "file exchange server" (not really easy as you need a lot of extra hardware, even if it's old hardware) or somehow convert your drive to FAT32 which is a filesystem that both operating systems can read from and write to.

 

As you can see it takes a bit of preperation and know-how to bring both worlds together. So if you ain't up to permanently use Linux on your machine you might consider all the above a bit bothersome. Anyway, whtever you do: backup your data (even if you stick with windows

 

As an encouragement though, I'd like to add that I'm running a couple of dual-boot machines at the office (and also here at home). On all of them MDK10 and Win2k live in perfect harmony. The good thing here is that every OS has its own dedicated harddisk (with reiser fs on linux and fat32 for windows), so I never had to re-partition anything.

 

regards

[Dapper Dan 0]

Well said blackpage.

 

On the changing files business, if your files aren't too cumbersome, you could plug in a USB reader writer stick and use that since most come pre formatted with fat32. Just drop the files on the stick from Windows, then when booted into Linux change and write to them as necessary. Of course you can do the reverse too.

[iano200 0]

Thanks Very much ill let yous now how it goes over the next week because I have to download the last iso image and get partition magic and partition the disk. And also i have a netopia Caymen 3300 series modem i was wondering is that compatible with linux.

Thanks Again

[Dapper Dan 0]

That's an ADSL modem? If it doesn't work plugging straight into your NIC from the modem with a cat5 cable, you may have to use a router.

[iano200 0]

Whats a cat5 cable.

[Dapper Dan 0]

That's one of those cables that looks like it has a big phone connector on both ends. See here.

[iano200 0]

Thanks I usually call them ethernet cables.

[jimf43 0]

Originally posted by blackpage:

Quote:

as mentioned above, there can be issues with dual-booting on XP-machines that you plan to embroider with a kernel 2.6 based linux (such as MDK10, Fedora Core 2 etc.). In the "worstest" case you cold even end up with a machine that will neither boot linux nor XP.

 

To avoid any possible hassle and data loss, please, do as emphasized above: back up everything from your harddisk that is of any significance before you start the installation/re-paritioning.

 

Secondly, perhaps you'd like to inform beforehand about what could happen and why it happens at all. The Internet is stuffed with good articles about the kernel 2.6/MBR issue (master boot record). For your convenience I'll add this link that you might want to follow ...

 

Kernel 2.6/MBR problem description/solution:

http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2004-May/msg00908.html

While Backing up is always a good Idea when doing a new install, What this appears to be is not the 2.6.x kernel, but the use of qparted in the installer to set the partitions. While this will cause no problems on an all Linux system, it can get you into a world of hurt on a window$/Linux dual boot. It is my understanding that Qparted is more standards compliant than either windows fdisk or pm8, but in the real world qparted sets the disk offsets so that the MBR is sometimes unreadable by windows.

 

The solution for a dual win/Linux boot is to set the partitions with either fdisk or pm8 and then format the Linux volume with the Linux utility. If pm8 asks to correct the offset, do not do it and never resize partitions after the original setup.

 

Quote:

The other thing I'd like to mention is that you won't be able to do much with an NTFS-partition under linux. Reading data is possible but enabling write-support in the kernel is considered "experimental" (=dangerous), and this is not going to change any time soon as MS won't publish any details about "NTFS". Why they don't is one of the "4 big Microsnot"-questions (others are "Why can't IE do stylesheets properly?", "Will XP service pack 3 break the 1GB barrier?" and "Where do you want to go today?"

 

In real life terms this means: You can copy some file over to a linux partition, edit the file, but you can't get it back to NTFS to further process the file under Windows. The solutions for this matter are: a) either set up a "file exchange server" (not really easy as you need a lot of extra hardware, even if it's old hardware) or somehow convert your drive to FAT32 which is a filesystem that both operating systems can read from and write to.

I've experienced no problems with read or copy of NTFS files. Don't even try to write. You will corrupt the NTFS volume. For a lot of reasons , including the ones you've given, many think that writing to NTFS from Linux will never happen. A fat32 volume is the best way to transfer between systems.

 

Quote:

The good thing here is that every OS has its own dedicated harddisk (with reiser fs on linux and fat32 for windows), so I never had to re-partition anything.

The dedicated HD is a very good idea even if not everyone has that option. The fat32 is somewhat questionable. A fat 32 transfer volume is a safer option.

 

 

[iano200 0]

sorry for asking this but can someone tell me how to do the partioning with partion magic 8. I have never partioned a HDD before

[danleff 0]

When you install PartitionMagic you get two documentation files that come with the installed software. Once the software is installed, go to Start--> All Programs (in XP)-->Powerquest Partition Magic 8-->PartitionMagic 8 Documentation.

 

Theree are two Adobe files that will help you through the process, a quick start quide and users manual.

[Dapper Dan 0]

 

Before doing anything, make sure you defrag Windows like danleff suggested.

 

Partition Magic is very intuitive and always gives you the option to "bail" if you don't think something is exactly right. Just right click on the NTFS partition and you'll be given an option to resize it.

If you commit, PM will then tell you it will have to reboot to finish the operation. I wouldn't shrink the NTFS partition any smaller than half the size of your total hard drive, unless you are certain you can go smaller without clipping any on your Windows.

 

Then after resizing, you can start creating Linux partitions with it. Actually, you can do all these operations at once, but why not take your time with it and learn.

 

Partitioning is always a little scary the first time out but you'll do fine! Just watch, be careful and it will work out eventually.

[jimf43 0]

Originally posted by Dapper Dan:

Quote:

Before doing anything, make sure you defrag Windows like danleff suggested.

Agree!

 

Also, go to:

http://www.sysinternals.com/win9x/98utilities.shtml

Pick up the free utility pagedefrag. Running this before you resize will also help keep everything intact.

 

 

[martouf 0]

avoid starting your partitioning job when a thunderstorm is approaching

 

Know the runtime of your UPS and plan accordingly. You can live more dangerously

if you have saved a full image of your HD first.

 

jimf43: I don't understand why you recommend more than the included-with-Windows

defragger? isn't it enough? true, it may take running it two or three times before

the filesystem is fully compacted. In fact, if you've got plenty of RAM,

you may need to disable virtual mem, reboot, defrag, and reenable virtual mem

to effect full compaction.

 

 

[jimf43 0]

b]Originally posted by martouf:[/b]

Quote:

jimf43: I don't understand why you recommend more than the included-with-Windows defragger? isn't it enough? true, it may take running it two or three times before the filesystem is fully compacted. In fact, if you've got plenty of RAM, you may need to disable virtual mem, reboot, defrag, and reenable virtual mem to effect full compaction.

The standard windows will not touch the pagefile. The utility I suggedted will. Also if you use a defragger with a pack option and the option not to leave files at the end of the volume use it. If you're seeing clusters at the end of the volume, those are the ones most likely to be corrupted or lost.

 

[martouf 0]

oh. ok! didn't know there was such a thing, other than the full

version of the included-with-Windows defragger. The whole disable VM, reboot,

defrag, reenable VM, reboot is a workaround for the pagefile problem.