Red Hat, oops, I mean Fedora still sucks...

[clutch 1]

I don't believe that he was trying to insult anybody at all. Please refrain from responding like that in the future.

[iamroot 0]

I have to agree with Reformat. Fedora Core 3 is one disappointing distro. Its damn unstable and its outright difficult to get the nvidia drivers working well with it. To add to that, the sound is buggy as well. I feel like trashing the entire distro and get a copy of Debian.

[Dapper Dan 0]

You're almost always gonna run into some type of difficulty when you try to live on the very outside of the Linux envelope no matter what Distro you're using. Why do you think Patrick Volkerding is sticking with the 2.4 kernel in the upcoming 10.1 version of Slackware, and maybe even the 11.0 version?

 

Remember Jimf43's tremendous problem using the latest 2.6 kernel with Mepis? He lost a bunch of info on his ReiserFS partitions due to a bug no one was yet aware of.

 

I'm presently running two machines at work with Core 2, and with the updates, both are working as close to perfectly as I could ask. It's gonna take a while for Core 3 to get sorted out. When it is, that's when I'll upgrade.

 

You can avoid many problems in Linux by just staying one version behind the latest. If you drop back to Core 2 I'd be willing to bet you're Nvidia problems will go away.

[danleff 0]

It's interesting how our experiences differ. I'm running Core 3 right now. It's doing some funky things in the background right now, but has been generally stable. It is also the first distro I have been able to get my wireless card to work with, although it's with a third party driver (linksys WMP54gv4 card using the ralink driver). it locked up solid with ndiswrapper (stack issues). kinda reminds me of Windows!

 

I also have Mandrake 10 beta version running rock solid. However, it refuses to compile a generic kernel-source and won't conect my wireless card.

 

I have to agree with Dapper Dan, stay one version behind and you get a much more stable and flexible system.

[ReFoRMaT 0]

I'm back and I don't care what you guys think, I have hung around enough chat rooms and assorted forums to know when somebody is being patronizing. Regardless, me and my SLOW computer have CALMED down now. Ok, enough with the yelling (talking to myself out loud).

 

I just might have found my perfect distro. I am in the process of downloading SimplyMepis04.06. It has KDE, mplayer (if I read one of many reviews right), apt-get/deb package management, native nvidia support and assorted other goodies. The only thing I am not to thrilled about is no Firefox browser 'right out of the box'. Guess I will 'deal' with that after the install. Somebody had suggested ProMepis (I believe it was Dapper) but after 'Googling' the difference between (strange how the difference is not stated on the Mepis site) Pro and Simply, I decided I don't need the extra 'serverware', etc. that comes with Pro (not yet anyway). I am praying to the Linux Gods that this is the 'one'. A common theme I am reading all around the internet is fed up windohs users waiting for a decent, bugfree (at least somewhat), functional and not so complicated that it takes weeks to get working distro. These same users have been down the path I am currently on and waiting in the wings, ready to pounce on such a distro.

[iamroot 0]

I didnt have problems with the nvidia drivers on Core 2 but Core 2 gives me a host of other problems. Esp when i upgrade to a new kernel...

[ReFoRMaT 0]

I have to wait for the stores to open to buy a larger capacity writable disk. Dang Simply, simply don't fit on a cdrw. Jeeze, if it ain't one thing, it's another. (contraction: ain't (colloquial) am not, has not, have not, is not, are not - who ever said ain't, ain't in the dictionary?)

[ReFoRMaT 0]

Hey 'root', did I ever tell you your screen name cracks me up? How about this for a root password: carrot? How about this for a user/password: couch/potato? So that would make me /home/couch - pw=potato. BWAAHAHAHAHA! Linux is just too easy to poke fun at!

[ReFoRMaT 0]

I changed my mind. I am going to download ProMepis too and try them both. If I am not mistaken, Pro has a newer kernel (correct me if I am wrong).

[ReFoRMaT 0]

Guess what, I am posting this frrom ProMepis 'live'. Mepis makes Suse look like dog food. I am outta here to install it to the harddrive. Pro has a newer kernal than Simply AND (Pro) has Firefox. I want to especially thank DapperDan for steering me in the Mepis direction. I just hope the harddrive install goes as smooth as the 'live' boot up. I AM IN SHOCK AND AWE PEOPLE! Hey noobs, don't waste your time, money or disks on the other wannabe distros. Mepis is the 'poop' man!

[ReFoRMaT 0]

I may have spoke to soon. Don't get me wrong, Mepis IS pretty cool but...nVidia problems again *sigh*. Got the driver to install in both versions but I can't change the refresh rate (higher). If you boot the install @ 800x600, that is the highest you will get AND an all time high of 60Hz in the drop down menu. Same goes for 1024, except for a highest refresh of 70Hz. I am posting this in Suse 9.1 @ 1024x768 with a refresh of 85Hz. I just don't understand why the driver installs in most distros, but is buggy as hell. Mepis is a 'heart in the right place' kind of situation. The 'Simply' was much more stable than the 'Pro' b04. In the Pro, my onboard ESS sound was terrible (excellent in other distros). I went to change it from 8bit to 16 bit and Pro locked up like a bank for a long weekend. I definitely like the look and 'style/thinking' behind Mepis but that is not enough to set my win2k install disk on fire with lighter fluid yet. Apt-get worked good for about 99% of the time. Apt is way better just for shear freedom of choice (even if some of it will crash your system). Limited software dictated by a corportation (Suse) sucks, gee sounds like somebody (M$) we all love to hate. I found Pro to be buggy and unstable, I chose not to install Apache Server for the first Pro install (I will install anything over and over to give it the benifit of the doubt) which caused me to not get on the internet even though I had a 'connection'. On the bright side I got my HL-1435 brother laser printer to work in Suse even though they say they don't support it (I chose the 1430 model in drivers). Now I will do my imitation of a stuck record, if only Suse had apt-get (I looked high and low in the packages and installing third party is a nightmare in Suse so I can't be that bothered). I am going to give SimplyMepis another bunch of installs to see if I can work the bugs out. If any body has had similar experience with the nVidia driver in SimpyMepis 2004.06, I beg of you, post the solution pllleeeeeeeaaazzze. My video card is a GeForce FX5200 128MBddr ('k, stop laughing anytime y'u'r' ready). One more thing, how do you shut off the graphical background boot once Mepis is installed, its all 'funhouse mirror' bent out of shape and annoying.

[OldSpiceAP 0]

I've been using linux exclusively for some time now. About 3 years. The computer I am typing this on has only one operating system on it. Ubuntu. Its quite nice. And Gee, gnome is kinda like osx. At first I thought it was too simplistic, but after a while I was in awe of its speed, and elegance. This is my first expirence with gnome. It took me about an hour to figure out how to edit the menu but after that it has been smooth sailing. The computer rus responsively. BTW type nautilus applications:/// in a konsole to open the menu editor... right click to add a launcher. Took me a bit, and I don't know why its done that way considering the first thing I did was to add a menu editor option to the settings in the menu. Go here for an excellent guide to the distro: http://www.myjavaserver.com/~mike001/ubuntu/

 

Helps with everything I needed to get it all up and going just how I like it. It took a bit, but now I have a simple, elegant desktop and a fast feeling computer. It doesn't make a link to the windows partition if you have one but adding a line like:

 

/dev/hda2 /mnt/windows ntfs defaults,errors=remount-ro 0 1

 

Then it automatically puts the icon on the desktop, though I would delete the link.

 

 

 

 

 

[Dapper Dan 0]

Hi guys...

 

As long as we're sizing up new distros, I'm coming to you from Slackware 10. Just installed it this morning, and I'll have to say this is a vast improvement over the problems I ran into with Slack 9. Or it could be I'm just more experienced with Linux now.

 

Anyway, I found out that Slackware has a package management utility called, and this is priceless...

 

slapt-get!

 

It works almost exactly the same as apt in Debian or apt-get RPM in Fedora just with tarballs rather than Deb packages and RPMs.

 

I really like this! Slackware isn't nearly as difficult as I once thought it was, and it runs like a damn scalded dog! In fact, it feels like it runs better than Gentoo did on my system, and this still with the 2.4 kernel!

 

The hardware detection was excellent, and the text install is very easy to follow.

 

It seems to have a more "solid" feel than either SuSE 9.1 or ProMepis. My desktop of choice, IceWM installed without complaint as did Firefox. Java, flash, and realplayer plugins for Firefox were up and running in no time, and for a while, I'm gonna stick with Kmail over my longtime favourite, Evolution just for a change of pace.

 

This is a truly solid way to go with Linux. I feel very at home with Slackware, which is not the same feeling I ever got with all the other distros I've ever tried. Of course it's still early yet...

 

Slackware doesn't have all the GUI configuration utilities that SuSE, Fedora and Mandrake have but I'm willing to forgo a little convenience at this point to learn how to configure things manually.

 

The standard DE is KDE, but it also offers Gnome and XFCE. I can't say enough about how much I'm enjoying this. I still don't think Slackware is a good "newbie" distro, but once you have some Linux under your belt, I think you should definitely give Slackware a try!

[iamroot 0]

Slackware 10 is not bad. I used it for a while. Quite fast, at least much faster than FC3.

[clutch 1]

ReFoRMaT, your best bet is to simply stick with a distro, any distro, and get better at it. The more you bounce around, the harder it is to get any real "feel" for that distro or Linux in general. This is why some people try to virtualize Linux (using VMware or VirtualPC) within Windows or OSX before committing a machine to it so they can adjust to it.

 

Dapper Dan, when I used to cruise the Gentoo IRC channel, we had many Slack users that were checking us out, in addition to LFS users or people getting ready to go LFS. I like Gentoo because it installs lean, no matter what stage you use. I imagine Slackware is the same way. I guess I just got so used to Gentoo that I haven't had a need to try any other distro for personal use. Caution: most users to switch to "lean" distros like that rarely go back to ones like RH, SuSE, Mandy, etc. Hope you can adjust...

[ReFoRMaT 0]

"/dev/hda2 /mnt/windows ntfs defaults,errors=remount-ro 0 1"

Tips and tricks are always welcome, thank you.

 

"As long as we're sizing up new distros, I'm coming to you from Slackware 10."

I have yet to try Slack', Gentoo, Ubuntu, some of the *oppix's and Damn Small.

 

"ReFoRMaT, your best bet is to simply stick with a distro, any distro"

Nah, what 'fun' would that be? If I did that, I would never find that 'comfortable shoe'. Besides some distros find most of my hardware better than others.

"the harder it is to get any real "feel" for that distro or Linux in general."

They all 'feel' just about the same depending on the kernel because the 'extras' 'satellite' the kernel. Some distros have better incorporation of 'extras' than others. I won't mention any names but some distros are a complete mess like they were assembled by drunks, ugly and disorganized.

[Dapper Dan 0]

Originally posted by clutch:

Quote:

ReFoRMaT, your best bet is to simply stick with a distro, any distro, and get better at it. The more you bounce around, the harder it is to get any real "feel" for that distro or Linux in general.

 

I completely agree. The time to start experimenting with other distros is after you've used one a good long while and have gotten very familiar with it. That way you have a good sound foundation from which to size up other distros as better or worse for you against what you've learned.

 

clutch wrote:

Quote:

I guess I just got so used to Gentoo that I haven't had a need to try any other distro for personal use.

 

I was fascinated with Gentoo, and appreciated the whole built-from-scratch-hot-out-of-the-oven-especially-suited-for-your-box approach, but frankly I'm a little too lazy and impatient to learn all that is necessary to be on top of a Gentoo installation.

 

I started with a 2.4 kernel then updated to a 2.6 kernel and everything ran pretty smoothly. It was just far more work than I am willing to undertake. With Gentoo, I was constantly on line searching for answers to problems I encountered without locating an understandable solution. Many of the "How-tos" on the Gentoo site were (for me) like trying to understand an alien language. Gentoo just wasn't a comfortable fit for me.

 

I think what attracts me to a distro is how much thought and attention to detail has gone into it. I also like a lean and clean set of apps without all the bloat for the sake of throwing huge numbers of apps at the end user in an attempt to impress them. Even after installing everything from the two CD's, Slackware is lean on apps.

 

I was really exited about Ubuntu for a while until I ran into things that just weren't thought out. As a for instance, the Ubuntu wireless card configuration utility froze up with me on two different machines with two different cards each and everytime I tried to use it. I like SuSE because it is well thought out, and attention is paid to the details. I have a feeling I'm gonna really like Slackware for my stated reasons, but as for now. SuSE 9.1 has so far been my distro of choice.

 

clutch wrote:

Quote:

Caution: most users to switch to "lean" distros like that rarely go back to ones like RH, SuSE, Mandy, etc. Hope you can adjust...

 

It's still early, and I may yet run into problems with Slack that turn me against it. So far though, most everything has gone smoothly, and I'm very exited about it. Slackware just feels like a better fit for me than any other distro I've tried after this period of time.

 

[ReFoRMaT 0]

"I completely agree. The time to start experimenting with other distros is after you've used one a good long while and have gotten very familiar with it. That way you have a good sound foundation from which to size up other distros as better or worse for you against what you've learned."

 

With all due respect, that is like putting the cart before the horse. Which distro do I use for this 'break in' period? Besides, you guys are losing sight of what I am and what I am trying to do which is: I am a windohs user who is somewhat computer savvy (a smidgeon of DOS, 95 up to XPee but using 2k and now some Linux), I am trying to find a 'non-computer-scientist' distro to take the place of windohs, NOT learn the command line in its entirety (some command line, I find, comes with the territory of ANY operating system so it's a given). That being said, Suse would be a lousy 'break in' OS because it is GUI up the wahzoo (besides, they are showing thier true corporate colours which turns me off). I actually like using the command line once in a while from within the GUI, makes me feel a little 'hackerish'. I think a polished Debian based (reasonable functionality of apt-get and widely supported) distro is my best bet. Decent hardware detection/automatic setup helps too.

[Dapper Dan 0]

Originally posted by ReFoRMaT:

Quote:

With all due respect, that is like putting the cart before the horse. Which distro do I use for this 'break in' period? Besides, you guys are losing sight of what I am and what I am trying to do

 

ReFoRMaT, with equal respect, this topic is not just about you. There will be plenty of new users who will read this post and may benefit from this discussion. For anyone who is thinking of using Linux I would give them the same advice. Whether or not you feel it may benefit you personally, (which obviously you don't) is of course your choice.

 

[ReFoRMaT 0]

"Whether or not you feel it may benefit you personally, (which obviously you don't)"

 

Dear Mr. D. Dan:

I 'absorb' everything you guys say but what if the first distro I tried was a real stinker? Stick with a stinker? Actually it was, it was Red Hat 9.0 and I hated it. I think it is more like find a 'shoe' that gives you the least blisters and 'run' with it. There, ya see, the best of both worlds. Also, I am quite aware that other noobs will be reading this, that is also part of the exercise, maybe save somebody else the headache of trying practically every distro out there by 'gleaning' distro info from you guys!

[clutch 1]

Typically, I recommend RH (OK, Fedora), Mandrake, or SuSE for newbies. After that, I recommend they go to a Debian-based distro for a while. Later, they "grow" into Slack, Gentoo, or something similar. If they are willing to pay for a distro, I recommend Xandros initially, as it is something that you can be happy with for quite a while, especially as a desktop OS.

[ReFoRMaT 0]

"Typically, I recommend RH (OK, Fedora), Mandrake, or SuSE for newbies. After that, I recommend they go to a Debian-based distro for a while. Later, they "grow" into Slack, Gentoo, or something similar."

 

You have pretty much, described to a 'T', the path I am on. Since I am somewhat of a fast learner, maybe I should skip the 'Debian' and go straight for Slack or Gentoo. OK, here is a crucial question: which distro (any 'flavour') has the biggest following/support from IT/developers?

[clutch 1]

There are two answers:

 

1. None

2. All

 

The idea behind RPMs was to make it easier to install things, but then dependency, installer version, and kernel version issues came about. This is why I don't mess with RPM-based distros, even when using "apt4rpm" because there were too few packages made available on those feeds (it might be better now, but too little too late for me).

 

When you start getting into apps and wanting to use cutting edge stuff, you either need a distro with a package management system that is kept up to date (ala Gentoo, and possibly Slack) or just compile from the latest source on your own.

 

If you want easy, then stick with the first ones I mentioned and gradually start compiling apps, and later on kernels on your own. The biggest hassle is having the libraries needed up front for whatever app you plan on building. However, some distros make getting the kernel a bit of a pain as well. What would be your best bet, is simply get your nVidia card working in *any* distro, as that process alone will teach you a great deal about getting things to work. Personnally, I would recommend compiling it from source, installing the modules, and configuring X to work with it. If you can manage that, then you should be ready for bigger and better things.

[ReFoRMaT 0]

I'm baaaaaaaaaaack...I just tried Novell Linux Desktop 9 (NLD9). Hmmm...Suse 9.1 without X.org (NLD9 still uses xfree86 4.something) so of course there is no nvidia driver update (mind you, the 'dummy' driver as they call it, works good if you tweak all the right settings but the 3D is slow even though saX says it is not enabled). Get this, NLD9 has RealPlayer 10 which Suse 9.1 does not (why?), Suse 9.1 firefox only goes up to 0.9.something (with yast conflict reports, 0.8.something safe though), NLD9 firefox is 1.0. I guess they (Novell) think office people don't need blazing graphics to do their work and Suse thinks 'home' users don't need the latest and best open source browser or the most recent Realplayer. I smell a scam to get a user hooked, then fed up enough to run out and buy Suse Pro 9.2 (it sounds like 9.2 has the best of both worlds). NO I DON'T HAVE A DVD BURNER, so please, don't even go 'there'. I know Suse offers the dvd iso but not everybody owns a dvd burner yet. This is why I am getting p*ssed at Suse. They are starting to feel a lot like a software giant that I despise. What is with Red Carpet AND Yast in NLD9? They both work (sort of) but close on you with no warning and for no particular reason (very wierd). Red Carpet would lock up if I tried to download the NLD9 documentation (which apparently I had but was showing as 'available'). Conclusion, Suse 9.1 loves my hardware but has crappy software choices, NLD9 has great software on top of older (buggy) Linux. The last you want is your update/installer tool to be buggy, how can you trust it? NLD9 is supposed to be 'enterprise'! I got so tired of re-writing my mbr, I started to put all the grubs on floppies. I am giving ProMepis another kick at the can, then U-bunty-buntu again. If anybody has used/tried Suse 9.2, please tell me if it has the latest firefox (1.somethin'), X.org.whatever, nvidia support AND RealPlayer 10. Who knows, I just might bust my piggy bank and buy the box set. By the way, saX is the best thing since sliced bread! Every distro should be using it! If Suse 9.2 is everything I think it is and runs smooth, it just might be my replacement for windohs. After all, Linux (whatever distro) just keeps getting better everyday so Suse 9.2 would be just fine for now.

[ReFoRMaT 0]

I think my search is over. I believe I said in a previous post I was going to try ProMepis again. Well I did a little comparison 'shopping' based on some info from http://distrowatch.com/ and ProMep had the best of most 'worlds'. Latest browser, absolutely fantastic multimedia support (Mplayer in the Firefox browser, Xine for playing files from disk(s) and RealPlayer just in case of a .r** whatever file). Actually Xine played a 'Real' file that RealPlayer refused to...get a load of that! The only real complaint I have is the old Xfree86 x window server(ver. 4.3 I believe). I have the actual nvidia driver installed but can't get a higher refresh rate of 76Hz @ 1024x768. It should go as high as 87Hz for this monitor (Optiquest Q71, Horiz. 30-70, Vert. 50-160). Regardless, open GL is working and the 'fireworks' screensaver is absolutely amazing (after you enable tons more features than what is 'on' by default). The 'just good enough' video is a small price to pay for an excellent free distro with the latest OpenOffice.org (1.1.3). Another small complaint (aimed at KDE) is the system sounds play like hell, sound from other sources like media players are louder, crisp and clear, thats a kanundrum if I have ever 'heard' one. By the way, be careful if your sound is buggy and you adust setting(s) in 'Sound System', Linux locked up on me everytime (the mouse still moved but NOTHING else would respond). I have onboard ESS Allegro (ESS 1988). I haven't tried the printer yet but I am not sure I care because I can hook it up to the wife's 'winbox' if it won't work. Now maybe if somebody would write a cdrw/udf program, my prayers would be answered. In the mean time, I think I am ready to jump ship, the (pirate skippered) S.S. Micro$cam. Did I mention ProMepis has Deb/apt-get? No? Well it does, hey fellow noobs, stay away from RPM distros if you can, bloody scary, I tell ya!