New to Linux w/questions

[N0N1337H41 0]

Hello everyone, I'm new to Linux. I'm new to command line based anything. What I'm trying to do is set up a box with Fedora and a wireless network. If this were a Windows enviroment I would be set, but I know nothing about Linux. I bought a Fedora book, and while it has lots of information it doesn't help me with being a first time user. I've been searching for days for a helpful forum, and I'm hoping this will be my last stop.

 

My biggest concerns right now are that I installed FC1 and ran up2date, but I'm not sure if that actually updated me to FC3. I don't mind staying on FC1 if I can run the wireless network on it. I don't have any hardware right now, and I'm trying to stay under $100 for the NIC and router. I prefer Linksys, but will use anything that's good quality.

 

I understand that these are newb questions, so I appreciate any tips for Linux virgins you might be able to provide. Thank you in advance.

[Dapper Dan 0]

Under $100.00? This combo will work under FC1 with little if any difficulty.

 

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproductdes...N82E16833124105

 

http://store.yahoo.com/justdeals/nema80wipcin.html

 

You'll have to pay more for 802.11G. Stay away from anything wireless that has a USB interface...

 

EDIT: Hold off on the WAP11. WEP enctyption can be screwy under Linux and you'll need that...

 

 

[Dapper Dan 0]

http://www.techdepot.com/product.asp?productid=119128&affid=10000485

[N0N1337H41 0]

Thanks for the help Dan. I will order these soon. In the meantime, if wanted to upgrade to FC3 would simply running up2date update me all the way to FC3, or do I have to go DL & burn the .iso files and reformat everything?

 

And a third question: If I do upgrade to FC3, will the router/card you reccomended still work?

 

I'm glad to have found a nice forum to post on. Some forums have been outright rude to me for being such a newb.

 

Thanks Again!

[Dapper Dan 0]

Originally posted by n0n1337h41:

Quote:

...if wanted to upgrade to FC3 would simply running up2date update me all the way to FC3, or do I have to go DL & burn the .iso files and reformat everything?

I don't think you can do an upgrade with up2date to FC3 but am not sure. I know you can do it with apt-get which would be a simple matter of changing the apt repositories up to the ones for FC3. I wouldn't do it though. I know it seems like the best thing to do to get up to speed with the latest release, but that isn't always the best thing. Any newer release is going to have more issues and bugs that need to be worked out. I think it is always wiser to stay one version behind. FC2 is plenty new enough and will run the hardware I suggested. Then when FC4 comes out, that would be a good time to update to FC3.

 

Quote:

If I do upgrade to FC3, will the router/card you reccomended still work?

I can't imagine any reason they wouldn't, but then again, it's the latest version, and there might be issues there I don't know about.

 

Quote:

I'm glad to have found a nice forum to post on.

We're glad you found us!

 

Quote:

Some forums have been outright rude to me for being such a newb.

There is never a good excuse for being rude to anyone on line, especially in a situation where someone is asking for help.

[N0N1337H41 0]

Quote:

I don't think you can do an upgrade with up2date to FC3 but am not sure. I know you can do it with apt-get which would be a simple matter of changing the apt repositories up to the ones for FC3. I wouldn't do it though. I know it seems like the best thing to do to get up to speed with the latest release, but that isn't always the best thing. Any newer release is going to have more issues and bugs that need to be worked out. I think it is always wiser to stay one version behind. FC2 is plenty new enough and will run the hardware I suggested. Then when FC4 comes out, that would be a good time to update to FC3.

So what you're saying (and several other people too) is that to stay up to date I'll need to completly reformat and reinstall each time another core is released? I must be missing something, because that just doesn't seem to make sense to me. I don't mind doing all of that right now while I'm getting started, but I don't want to keep doing that every six months! If I wanted to reaload an OS+personal files a few times a year I'd stick with windows.

I don't mean to come off as ungrateful, but I really don't think I'm getting it.

[Dapper Dan 0]

Maybe you're confusing update with upgrade. You can use up2date, Yum and apt-get to keep your FC 1 updated with the latest bug and security fixes, but you'll still have Core 1. Doing an upgrade is when you upgrade from one version to another, from FC2 to FC3 and so on.

 

You may be able to upgrade to FC3 from FC1, using up2date, I just don't know. Maybe someone else who frequents here will know. I never liked nor do I use up2date. I use apt-get rpm for Fedora. With it, I know you can upgrade from version to version just like I said. If you want to run apt-get, see my How To, here.

Since you're running Core 1, you'd need to download the corresponding rpm packages for it. You can get them here.

 

Yoiu can also download the Fedora Core 2 or Core 3 ISO's and burn them to disk. Then you use those to do an upgrade rather than a fresh install, the same as if you were upgrading from say Windows 98 to 2000.

 

 

[N0N1337H41 0]

Again, thank you Dan.

 

Yes, there is a very good chance that I'm confused about everything right now. I keep on wanting to run back to windows, but I feel that if I keep with this I will end up liking better than windows in the end. I'm using the torrent from linux.duke.edu right now to get FC3. I'll do my "magic" tomorrow after work and let you know how things work out.

 

It's not that I'm partial to up2date, it's just that I don't know how to do anything else. This is literally my second day with linux so many things that may seem obvious to most leave me feeling like a child at a quantum theory lecture. But with the help of patient people such as yourself I hope to make it through this.

 

Thanks again.

[Dapper Dan 0]

Don't give up! There is that point where everything seems overwhelming but try to remember how overwhelming it was the first time you sat in front of a Windows computer. It was just as intimi[censored] then right?

 

You will quickly come to a point where it will begin to make sense and you'll have a foundation with which to build greater understanding and knowledge.

 

Linux requires you to learn more, but the dividends are an OS that can be just about anything you want it to be, and it will be yours, not Microsofts!

 

If you learn just a little more each day and be patient, you'll soon be working with Linux as easily as when you were running Windows. In fact, there will come a day when Linux will make so much sense to you that Windows will seem like a bad dream!

 

Trust me, if I can learn Linux, anyone can!

[peteg990 0]

Searching for an answer to a little problem of my own, I couldn't help but feel for Justbill.

Your doing a good job helping him,,

Justbill hang in there! It's going to be ok.

 

My reason for posting is, I keep seeing you talking about /mmt/floppy.

FC3 default is /media/floppy.

Redhat 9 and less is /mnt/floppy.

If you made the directory /mnt and then /mnt/floppy you can of course use /mnt/floppy.

If I missed something here, sorry for interrupting and keep up the good work.

 

Now I've just got to get the audio working with my FC3.

Works fine with RH-9.

Looking at the /etc/modprobe.conf it found the correct hardware but it's still broken.

 

I'll find that little buuuuger.

 

Pete

[Dapper Dan 0]

Hi Pete and welcome!

 

Sometimes it's hard to teach us old dogs new tricks. This /media directory is a new thing. It's also there is SuSE 9.1 on. Stll, I find myself mounting any file system to /mnt since that's where my mind is conditioned to look for it. It's really as you say, just a matter of preference...

[eric_d 0]

n0n1337h41,

D.Dan makes a good point that it is never really appropriate to be rude online - or anywhere else for that matter.

 

However, understanding the reason you were snubed will go a long way toward your learning of Linux or Unix - in fact, toward your being able to get more out of computing than you have in the past.

 

It's also important because while D.Dan was more than helpful, you should realize where your info is comming from. That is, it's only one person's knowledge - which can sometimes be wrong.

 

For example I disagree with D.Dan that you should run one version behind. One school of thought (SOT) believes this, the other believes that upgrading gives the best protection against security threats. The point is, even the experts disagree. Untill you use experts as evidence you weigh in your own mind, you will be blind to the underlying issues.

 

Moreover, any version of Fedora Core is a test bed for the Enterprise version of Red Hat Linux. It is not the Enterprise version so there will be things that don't work, isn't convienient, etc. I run Fedora Core 3 with SE Linux enabled mostly for the SE Linux.

 

Google other's opinions to learn about other packages. Heck build your own - it's a great learning experience. Other packages are more or less stable and more or less up to date with all their packages. Fedora focuses on many up to date packages at the expense of some stability. Other packages are totally different.

 

Not using other information sources severely limits what you can and will learn. I assume you asked in a similarly polite manner so that is not the issue. Take something you know about, say it's math, auto repair, whatever. You learned it by reading, practice, more reading, more practice.

 

I'm not a mechanic but I want to learn. But instead of reading or practicing, I come ask you to teach me (oh yea, for free, you know just spend some time with me and let me ask questions.). You'd be rightly put out a bit. Same when I ask you "How would I learn this?" Your answer should be "just like every body else."

 

But if instead I said: "I read and studied such and such, and practiced s&s, and I still can't figure it out. Can you point me in a direction or tell me what I'm doing wrong?" Then you'd bend over backwards to help me.

 

It's the same with computers. The real gurus are those who learned by hacking their way through it (which is the only real way anyone learns); read, hack, read, hack ....

 

When you ask this person out of the blue "How do I learn ..." from their perspective you are not really asking what you think you're asking. To you, you just want an answer. To them, you are asking about the learning process but displaying an atitude that shows you are unable and unwilling to learn on your own.

 

They got there by learning - read, hack, read, hack.... You are asking to get their without that. It's in some ways disrespectful - if you don't care enough to do any of that on your own why should they spend any of their time. And theirs is a heck of a lot more valuble than yours - they've spent years learning.

 

On the other hand, try posting a question after you have Googled, searched for answeres, etc. I have been learning and using Linux (and now at a fairly advanced level) for about five years and I have posted very few questions. Not because I haven't had roadblocks - I have them all the time. It's because after Googling, searching newsgroups, forums, and wiki, I find more than enough information.

 

Once you get to that point, you'll still have roadblocks, but you'll be an expert in solving them. And that, wether it's in installing and getting stuff to work, if it's designing systems, security auditing, whatever, that is the real issue - knowig how to solve problems - to learn on your own.

 

If you ask others for guidance the are more than happy to help. Ask without demonstrating at least a little respect for their time by doing some of your own homework and you really have no right when they rudly spend no time with you.

 

The first Google result from "how to ask good questions" is www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

It would be very good reading. It does not answer your question. But it can teach you how to answer it on your own and how to get answeres if you really must ask.

 

You can learn more about this mindset here: www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html

 

I use:

Google

man pages (type from a command prompt "man [name of command]" )

info "info [name of command]"

Linux Documentation Project

wiki the package's home page.

 

Others truely want to help. Otherwise they wouldn't write the software, licence it and give it away for free, write the man pages, the how tos, and make themselves available in forums and newsgroups. But one needs to help one's self before blindly asking anyone else to take the time.

 

Best of luck

Eric Chowanski

[Dapper Dan 0]

Hi Eric and welcome to Linuxcompatible.

 

We are in the unique position here as being the very first place new Linux users often ask questions since hardware seems to be their first great obstacle. But we're here for just more than that. Many new users, (and I was one), feel utterly isolated in their quest to figure out what the hell they're trying to do with Linux and what to do next.

 

When I first started learning, there was no one I knew first hand who could help me. I just knew I wanted to check out Linux but had no idea where to begin. I didn't even know what was meant by a "distro" or even how to "become root." Thankfully, I found a few experienced users on line who took the time to give me guidance. It was comforting to know there was another real person out there that really wanted me to succeed, and took time to point me in the right direction.

 

You are right in saying there is plenty of information on the net from which to Google and find answers. I rarely pose questions on forums and only do so after having exhausted all remaining avenues for seeking a solution.

 

I haven't noticed too many instances where a new user just wants answers and is too lazy to look for it themselves. I have seen cases where new users just didn't yet possess the skills necessary to track down the answers. This is not unusual. I didn't know how to either when I first started. We all can do our part to help them learn how to do this.

 

As long as new members ask for help in a polite way, I'm going to be equally polite in assisting them. You'll notice oftentimes among my posts, I give links to other sites that will help with the question at hand. This is a way of showing the person seeking help that the answers are indeed out there if they learn how to ask the right questions.

 

I don't feel it is a burden on my time, nor do I feel put upon when someone wants help. I look at it as an opportunity to pay something back to open source since I hate filling out bug reports. It takes a little time and often some aggravation to help others here, but to me it's eminently well worth the effort.

 

I used Redhat from 7.3 through Fedora Core 2. Since I changed over to Slackware, we need a few more hands around here to assist with RedHat/Fedora questions. I hope we can count on you to pitch in and give us a hand now and again.

[N0N1337H41 0]

Thanks for the advice eric! While it's easy to assume that people who ask common questions didn't search before they asked, I'm not one of those people. But this has been the general assumption in every forum, and if it weren't for Dan, I would have quit. Not having been in this community long at all I haven't had the chance to see people looking for info handouts, I don't doubt that it is a common thing. So you all have my word that I will have read through several hours worth of posts and documentation before I post a question. I think the problem with my questions are that they are SO basic that no one ever answers them. And before I ask my next question I would like to say something: For all of the hell that Windows gets, I could teach an eighty-year-old blind and deaf amputee with advanced parkinsons to use that OS effectively. I used to work a tech support job for Bellsouth's DSL and talked people through fairly advanced procedures (for windows) over the phone. But Linux is not intuitive at all. While I'm not in MENSA, I'm also not an idiot and Linux is so tough that it stresses me out even when I'm at work. Once most of the command line work is taken out of Linux I think it will be better, but devs still seem to assume that people are going to want to always have a terminal up. Why in the hell would I always want to have that up? just another window clogging my view.

 

Anyway, my biggest current problem is with trying to get samba to work. I've read a good chunk of the howto, searched google for answers, searched three forums, and searched the samba.org site (just so no one makes passive-aggressive accusations of me being an information freeloader). This search progress has taken me around five hours. I've come away with a vague idea of what samba would be like were it to decide to work. My issue is that I can't use the URL to open up SWAT because it gives me an error and my smb.conf file has confused me. I've tried to use the # testparm etc/samba/smb.conf and it gives me an error of "No such file or directory." Well I know damn well that this file exists because I can see it right now. Besides SWAT is there a UI to go with samba? If i type # samba i get an error saying "command not found". Basically (again) I have no real basic understanding of what I should even be seeing on my screen. I've looked in the package manager and the samba files are installed by default. I'm lost.

 

My other issue is that any program that tries to access a browser pops up with an error saying that a specific location was not found. Well, I get this same error when I try to click on the desktop internet icon. I looked at the properties and found the file that this shortcut pointed to. Well the file is the redhat-web.desktop file located in my usr/share/desktop-menu-patches directory. I'm not able to open this file to edit it so I don't know how I can tell these programs to stop looking for firefox in the wrong folder.

[BSchindler 0]

I agree with Dapper Dan about newbie questions. Often when someone is beginning to learn something they do not even know what the question is and therefore are severly handicapped when it comes to searching for the answer themselves. Dan is really good at putting links in his posts for more info.

 

I confess that at times when I see posts I really worry about jumping in to help. Sometimes the questions are open ended enough to make me cringe. There are questions like "How do I become a great race car driver?", only to find out that the person asking has never even seen a car.

 

Certainly I am not trying to be elitist. It is just that sometimes people want to do things that they are not ready to tackle. Unfortunately, everybody wants a quick fix or a guaranteed recipe for success. The recipe exists, perhaps, but teaches nothing about how or why it works. And when there is a snag, it is almost impossible to get enough information to debug it.

 

When possible I will try to help anyone who asks. In reference to the post above, about sites disparaging newbies I suggest this:

 

1. Ask for help, please.

2. Provide enough information for the reader to understand the question and what you have done to research the answer. What EXACTLY did you try and what was the result?

3. BE SPECIFIC. When you describe a problem, state the distro and release, don't say RedHat, say Red Hat 9 at least.

4. When the question has to do with interfacing with other machines (e.g., Windows and Samba) state the release of Windows and the CIFS/NetBios configuration information as well.

 

You get the idea. Understand, that there are a lot of people who are willing to help you, but, you have to demonstrate that you value their time. Don't make people quess what you mean or want.

 

So, time for this OM to get off his soap box and try to help.

Earlier in this thread, someone mentioned wanting to configure Samba. If you will post the contents of your /etc/samba/smb.conf file, I will try to help. Also, don't leave out info about Windows configuration. Particularly CIFS/NetBios info.

 

P.S., I have found the graphical samba configuration tools sometimes a bit twitchie so I generally edit smb.conf directly. Old habits die hard.

 

Bill