Tiscali let me down (polite title!)

[ScinteX 0]

Not to rant or anything, I just wanted to let you guys know about my dealings with Tiscali .... you can draw your own conclusions! -pay special attention to the bit where I say don't sign up with them!

 

Now normally I am a chilled out kinda person who actually finds it hard to intimidate anyone and usually doesn't have a bad word about anyone or anything unless it really deserves it. That time has come!

 

 

Here's the rapid fire audit trail..........

 

 

In 2002, I got ADSL (yippee) with Tiscali on a 512K package.

 

For 3 years I had a perfect service- 60K down the tubes a second, sometimes a little bit faster - all good

 

Tail end of 2004 and up to present time things have been AWFUL! Not just for me - my mates too have serious speed issues. We are all on different exchanges across the UK.

 

Speeds dropped steadily from Nov 2004 until today my maximum bandwidth is 18K, averaging around 11K. So thats 6 times slower (ish) than it should be. Want to know what the first kick in the goolies is? They just upgraded me to 1Mbps!! Haha ok so they tried but messed up

 

Really annoyed with the lack of speed and any kind of technical support I decide to CANCEL !! yay cancel them; do it do it!

 

Here's roughly what happened when I phoned the cancellation line:

 

Monkey on the helpdesk: sorry but you have 6 months of your 12 month contract to fulfill.

Me: I didn't renew any contract

Monkey: Well sir I am only reading what it says here on the screen.

Me: I have been a customer since October 2002. That's about 2 and 1/2 years. Tell me, is 2 and 1/2 years more than 1?

Monkey: (no answer)

Monkey: Why do you want to cancel?

Me: I am getting 10K on this connection and nobody will fix it.

Monkey: Did you email tech support?

Me: Yes. And why do you think I want to cancel?

Monkey: because you got the wrong email?

Me: Are you seriously telling me that the best you can do is blame me for this?

Monkey: Well no I just think you got the wrong email address

Me: I think you got the wrong idea of customer service. I want to cancel my account with you as i said and the reason is because you guys cannot fix it. It's simple.

Monkey: You will have to pay for the remainder of the contract which is 6 months.

Me: but October to July is 8 months not six, so your dates don't even add up. Who can I speak to dispute this contract with?

Monkey: This is the cancellation line.

Me: And do you have a contracts department I can phone?

Monkey: No you have to write to head office with a complaint.

Me: Will I get a reply that specifically deals with my complaint?

Monkey: Yes you will if you write to them

Me: but i want to cancel my broadband now, as stated in para blah blah of your terms and conditions where I have to give 1 months notice. Can you consider this as that notice?

Monkey: No as you have 6 months left on your contract

Me: but it is a rolling one month contract I never agreed to anything further after the initial 12 months

Monkey: I am just reading what it says on the screen

Me: Can you provide me with the agreement that shows each 12 month period?

Monkey: No I only deal with cancellations

Me: Ok ok I give in- how much to cancel this contract?

Monkey: 6 months at £19.99

Me: And if I pay that then that's it, no more you, no more Tiscali?

Monkey: That is correct. It will take 2 days to cancel the account and 10-15 days for bt to release the line.

Me: OK well don't do that yet I want to think about it. Thanks, bye

Monkey: Thank you for calling Tiscali ....

Me: CLUNK!

 

So by now I am fuming! There's a principle here- Tiscali making up stories about this 12 month contract that they seemed to have got from somewhere. If they could provide proof then fine, if they could just justify what they are saying.

Write to head office? Why when there is a problem do I always get told to go to head office?

Anyway-I'm armed with snippits from the tiscali website and the terms and conditions plus the emails from when I signed up and I go for a walk.....

...i work in a building with a lot of solicitors. Handy....

 

Anyhow after my time of free legal advice I phone them up for a second time. I wont bore you with the details but I paid them £120 to cancel everything. Thing is I need this connection to work good for the work that I do. Did I give in? Nope, the credit card company are helping me out and I have a TEAM of lawyers picking them apart! haha, funny thing is one of them got stung too in a similar way so he was gagging to write them some nice letters.

 

To be honest I couldn't be bothered with Tiscali- I just wanted out.

 

Whatever you do don't sign up with them- take a look at http://www.ispreview.co.uk/new/complain/complain.shtml and you'll see they have a page up for complaints about Tiscali. Most of the ISP review sites are full of unhappy Tiscali customers.

 

Tiscali were good in 2002- not now. Helpdesk staff are cheeky and if you have an issue forget any help.

 

So, the end of my lovely tale (and looking forward to when I finally connect with Zen Internet (thx to Andy for the rec.)!

 

S

 

[jmmijo 1]

Hmm, that's a sad tale of woe indeed

 

I'm glad that so far, Comcast has been very, very nice for me. They recently upgraded to 4Mbs from 3 last month

 

Before that it was ATTBI which also ran just fine and before that I had Qwest xDSL which was great too. Had one outage which Qwest fixed in about 2~3 hours...

 

I'm knocking on wood now

[packman 0]

Scintex,

 

I fully concur with you. Yes, matters with Tiscali certainly did go downhill after about 2002. They weren't particularly good BEFORE that, mind you. But, yes, it was around 2002 that Tiscali bought out a number of smaller ISPs in Europe, including LineOne, the one I used to be with, on dial-up. I was able to stay with a LineOne address but in essence I was now signed up with Tiscali.

 

I'm currently having major problems with Tiscali, with them trying (it seems) to defraud me and many others. They are deliberately not closing their billing when customers leave them. They've even taken it to the point where they've instructed bailiffs to recover money or goods from past customers, even though the accounts were closed way back.

 

I myself closed my LineOne Surftime joint account with them last October but have been given the run-around by them ever since. They publish account cancellation guides at their website which are totally inoperable, they don't respond positively to e-mails on the subject, and they make every attempt to make you phone them on premium-rate phonelines, to try to get your account sorted. I've also written to them by snailmail several times but they say one thing and do (or rather, don't do) another. For example, I had a letter of reply from them dated 2nd Feb 2005, where they state that they apologise and will immediately cancel the continued billing via British Telecom (BT) and also remit me a cheque. They state they'll do this within 28 days. It's now 3rd March and they've done no such thing. And I can't even phone BT about it, as all lines to BT's customer service are apparently permanently busy, day after day.

 

My Surftime account was linked with BT - part of what I paid went to BT, the other part to Tiscali, with the two parts appearing on my quarterly BT bill. But Tiscali are still billing me every quarter. They also owe me some money, from me having quit only one third way through a quarter. I've talked to BT about this many times in past months but BT maintain that they cannot remove Tiscali's billing unless Tiscali want to. I mean, that's ludicrous, isn't it? However, I'm stuck with that situation.

 

 

If you look at some of the archived ISP complaints from the last year or two on www.ispreview.co.uk, you'll see that there are many complaints of my and your kind about Tiscali. Some ex-Tiscali customers in the UK have had to resort to getting solicitors involved or attempting to get help from Ofcom. Actually, Tiscali has been voted by users of ISPReview as the worst ISP in every category for the last few years. I'm seeking legal advice, myself, at present.

 

Frankly, I cannot see how an ISP could have sunk to these depths. I cannot see that, by appearing to be either unethical or so incompetent, that Tiscali can ever hope to gain anything. Sure, they can earn interest on ex-customers' money while the disputes continue but, in the end, they'll be shown up for what they are.

 

Certainly, I'd never recommend anyone signing up with Tiscali. Doing that in the first instance might be easy but leaving them is a veritable nightmare. It seems that, especially in the UK, we have no safeguards against this kind of thing.

[ScinteX 0]

Wow guys I am humbled by your posts!

It's actually times like these that you realise that you cant fight these people just by yourself. Solicitors and other bodies are usually needed. It's a real pain in the as$ since I would love to go down there and smash some stuff up!

So for the time being I think patience is needed.

 

I got bored earlier and just phoned them up pretending not to know anything and started to say fun stuff at them like (all done with 0 preparation- makes for the must amusing stuff lol):

 

Tiscali:Whats your phone number?

Me: I dont know

Tiscali: Ok what's your surname?

Me: I don't have one everyone calls me Joe

Tiscali: Ok Mr Joe

Me: No it's just Joe

Tiscali: Your surname is Joe and your firstname is Just? As in Justin?

Me: No not just in I have been waiting a while

Etc....

 

Then:

Me: Hi I have a real big problem I am trying to cancel my broadband can you help?

Tiscali: Yes of course what wrong?

Me: You have been investigating why my remaining contract period is never going down its always on 6 months.

Tiscali: Have we?

Me: You told me you have an investigation team on the case, have they found out anything yet?

Tiscali: We don't have an investigation team here we just do cancellations

Me: Of course you do, I am sure the Tiscali Investigation Team (TIT) are looking into it

Tiscali: Sorry I don't know what you are talking about

Me: Let me have a look through some old emails I'll get back to you later today. I really think you should look up what that team do as I think you could all work in there rather than being on a helpdesk all day

Tiscali: Really? (sounds quite pleased)

Me: Yes look up that team, be one of them

Etc...

 

haha what joy. Childish... yes... pleasing oh yes!

 

S

 

Them:

[AndyFair 0]

I've also heard many terror stories about Tiscali - including the refusal to release the MAC codes that allow you to transfer your ADSL from one supplier to another, continuing to charge customers way beyond their cancellation date, and many other tales too horrible to repeat here.

They were also, of course, the company that got their wrists slapped by Ofcom for describing 128k as broadband.

 

Glad I could help with the recommendation, but remember: if it all goes tits up, you haven't seen me, right?

[packman 0]

Scintex,

 

I share your immense frustration with Tiscali, but phoning them up and playing games with them isn't likely to get you anywhere.

 

One of the annoying things that UK customers of theirs have to endure is that you have to be in dispute with them for at least 12 weeks before Ofcom will even talk to you about it. When it comes to the wire, anyway, Ofcom can only intervene over very restricted issues.

 

I assume you're hailing from somewhere in the UK and it might be worth you phoning Otelo, the ISP Arbitration Service, on 0845-0501614. You'll be joining a long phone queue, though. You could otherwise try e-mailing enquiries@otelo.org.uk and BRIEFLY explaining your problem with Tiscali. I cannot guarantee you'll get any real help from Otelo by e-mail, though. I'm trying that route, myself.

 

Yes, my old LineOne dial-up account with Tiscali ended up costing me around £18 per month, so I simply HAD to quit that account, and I could only ever get between 32k and 40K bits/sec, anyway. The cheaper dial-up I'm now on, with Tiscali (I couldn't afford to swap to any other ISP as I'm living on a very small pension these days), is much the same except that Tiscali frequently drop the line. I think I'll have to leave them completely soon, but I dread the day, as they'll be up to their usual tricks, I'm sure.

[packman 0]

Scintex,

 

I also meant to give you Ofcom's tel no: 020-7981-3040 or 0845-456-3000. I assume you're in the UK somewhere. You could at least complain to Ofcom in the first instance. DON'T rant and rave, though; keep everything succinct. Ofcom won't be able to help you directly, but they WILL log your complaint. If they get enough complaints about Tiscali, perhaps something in the end will be done about it, in a more universal way.

[ScinteX 0]

Thanks packman much appreciated.

The facts it is then, no worries there.

I only played the games cos somehow it made me less annoyed at them- never menacing in anyway.

I hope they release that MAC code like good people should.

I'll make a few enquiries with Ofcom and Otelo.

 

Thanks again, kind regards

[packman 0]

Glad to be of some small help, Scintex.

 

BTW, is that 'Business 500' you're on, with Tiscali, or is it an earlier 'domestic' broadband account? It might be that Tiscali regards only their Business range of DSL packages as worth supporting and perhaps they let everything else go to the wall. That's the impression I get, anyway, rightly or wrongly.

 

I think it was only relatively recently that Tiscali shifted a lot of its so-called customer support to call centres in India. Judging by what's happened with countless other IT organisations when they've done that, that's real bad, as the support staff there are usually woefully inadequate and only give answers that their supervisors approve, anyway.

[Wicked101 0]

Hi ScinteX,

 

I dont know if this will help, but here in Germany I use 1&1, they are very good and I've never had any problems with them. I only have a 1024 line with flatrate and I pay 19 Euro/month, I dont think thats bad at all.

 

Just a little useless information, use it, dont use it:-)

[packman 0]

Alecstaar, I ( and I guess) Scintex take your points on board, obviously. Unlike the legal situation that exists in the States, in the UK, disputes of this sort are handled in a much more low-key way. Going to court over such a relatively small amount of money involved simply wouldn't happen. The best one could hope for, in the UK, is to either get a solicitor (attorney) to write a warning notice to the offender, or to take the offender to the Small Claims Court. In either case, it means the plaintiff spending money, again perhaps more than they'd get back from winning the case. It'd rarely even go this far, though. As often as not, a better route is to get a TV consumers programme to expose the fraud. But the TV company will only do it if enough victims write in. In the case of Tiscali customers, my impression is that they don't bother and just let Tiscali get away with it.

[theefool 0]

Just curious. Why not change out your nic, that way you don't have to wait on your MAC to be released. Unless you are not talking about the MAC address on the NICs themselves......

[AndyFair 0]

thefoool, no the MAC code we're talking about here is an authorisation code that gives BT (the telecoms incumbent, and owner of most exchanges and equipment therein) and the new ISP the authorisation to switch the ADSL connection from the old ISP.

 

Confusingly, it has nothing to do with NIC MAC addresses. x)

[theefool 0]

ahhh, K....

[ScinteX 0]

As asked above im on the general "home user" 1Mbit package.

Here in the UK theres really 4 routes you can go for broadband:

 

1- Down your phone line (2Mbit if u r lucky usually 1Mb)

2- Cable, usually supplied by the TV people (up to 4Mbit)

3- Satellite, kinda rare i guess, up to 2Mb but setup costs are high

4- Live in a school or other "public" building and get 10Mb, soon to be 1Gb!!! Labelled as "world’s largest Ethernet Metropolitan Area Network within the public and educational sector.". Nice. (EDIT- think this only applies to inner London for the time being)

 

Still no news from Tiscali on the code and release of the line. Funnily enough the speed has got better- 50K downloads now which is a tad slower than a good 512K connection (usually 60) however still half the supposed 1mb connection i have apparently been upgraded to. At least I can use the net now!

 

I like the technical slant on this topic now- i am pleased since im not one for a forum full of unjust rants!

Alec u r excused! I am going at it alone for the time being since i agree with you- doing this by myself will make any 'victory' so much sweeter!

 

By the way- Tiscali changed the terms and conditions and never notified me. I am currently picking apart the 'agreement' anyhow.

So there was this question I had- how can i find out what the T&Cs were almost 3 years ago? Easy! -

 

http://www.archive.org and "the way back machine". One of the most useful sites ever- i recommend it to anyone who is looking for how sites used to look.