Piracy...

[DrSchmoe 0]

I occasionally get on a soap box, and thought that I was overdue

 

Anyway, I don't know how many of the "regulars" of this board are pirates? 50%, 25%, less, more? But I sometimes get the sneaking suspicion that a lot of people with pirated copies come here for help. I guess they figure they can find some knowledgeable people, and not have to worry about dealing with MS.

 

I replied to a dead-giveaway message earlier. He was running a W98 and Win2k Advanced Server dual boot.

 

Why the heck would you do that? Is there any logical reason whatsoever to run multi-thousand dollar software at home? Did he need fail-over clustering for his Quake3 server? Just so clan "ScrewMS" wouldn't lose their game? Which wouldn't work anyway since Q3 isn't MSCS aware.

 

Or maybe he *was* legit, and he thought he needed an emergency copy of Windows 98 running on his 8 CPU SQL server. (Yeah, sure)

 

No pirate could ever need Advanced Server. Secondly, if they are actually a developer and need 2k Sever, then their business can buy it for them (or buy it yourself and take a tax write off; assuming you are in the US).

 

Is anyone else is as frustrated as I am?

 

Might I suggest a course of action?

 

If an obvious pirate posts asking for help, politely tell them that support is not available for users with pirated software. Maybe include simple directions to purchase a legit copy.

 

If an adult, they can afford to purchase Win2K Pro, if they are younger (i.e. a student) they can still afford to purchase Win2K Pro. JourneyEd (www.journeyed.com) sells academic priced software, and they have Pro for $120 and Server (complete version, 5 user) for $399.

 

If this is still too much money, get off the computer and go cut some lawns.

 

Sorry if my tone is a bit harsh, but I can only take so many messages of "I can't my SB Live working on Win2k Advanced Server!" That, and my firm develops software, so acts of piracy aren't very favorable around here.

 

</SOAPBOX>

 

Comments? Suggestions? Criticism?

[nog 0]

totally agree (but didn't want to be the first to bring it up - I'm a llama, sue me ;p) one of the main reasons I stopped visiting #win2000 and #windows2000 (efnet) was because of piracy.

 

i have to disagree with you about running server at home though. terminal services (only in server and above) is a really nice feature that I wish was included in pro. I do agree with you on advanced server. if you really need that, your office should have the budget to afford it, since they can obviously afford 8way xeon machines to use it.

[DrSchmoe 0]

Yeah, its okay to run Sever at home That is what I meant about "their business can buy it for them." Generally, non-developers have no reason to run Server (with IIS being included in Pro, etc). Sorry about the confusion. I telecommute occasionaly, and consequentially I am running 2K Server on a second box for testing.

 

Don't even get me started on business piracy!

 

[This message has been edited by DrSchmoe (edited 01 March 2000).]

[Shrink 0]

Frankly, a big reason that I hang around here is because of what I learn about troubleshooting problems. I frankly do not care about whether or not the user has pirated software nor do I want to try and infer whether that is the case. If that happens, this forums runs the risk of turning into a flame fest. If you have concerns about piracy, turn the person in to piracy@microsoft.com and let them investigate it. I want to learn as much as possible about different Windows 2000 related problems, regardless of whether or not Windows 2000 was obtained legitimately. The exception would be if someone was asking for help for their dual boot win98/win2k version 2078 (i.e. internal ms build) now that the final has been released. As I said, we are asking for trouble if we start assuming who is and who isn't using a pirated build. Use your God-given right to narc someone out if you object to what you assume they are doing.

 

Stephen J. White

aka Shrink

[Andy_25 0]

I totally agree Shrink. It would be pointless to start wondering who is running pirated Win2K and who bought it legimitately. There's no way of knowing. I bet there are people out there who bought it and are having problems and people who have a pirated copy with no problems.

 

The forum is for people having problems with win2K, and I am also interested to see all the current issues people are having with it, pirated or not pirated.

 

Of course piracy is a current issue, but it's not one to be discussed her.

 

Well, just my thoughts....

[Mark W 0]

I also agree with Shrink. DrSchmoe, many people like to have the biggest, badest machine with the latest and greatest software. Just because you can't think of a good reason that someone should be running Advanced Server doesn't mean he can't. You also forget that these advanced versions are legally obtainable for less then their retail prices. You yourself mention academic versions resonably priced. Personally, I just received today my NFR copies of win2k pro, server, and advanced server that were part of a MS HOT kit that cost me less than $150!

[Andy_25 0]

You tell 'em Mark! I totally agree with you! There are plenty of people who can afford Win2K for some reason or another. There's no point in starting to suspect them of having pirated copies (even if many of them have).

 

Thanks!

[DrSchmoe 0]

Can't think of a good reason to run Advanced Server? It has absolutely no added features or added performance benefit over Pro. Zilch, Nada. If anything, it runs slower because it specifically dedicates more resources to backround services.

 

Furthermore, it costs more to add utilites. For instance, the server version of Diskeeper is considerably more expensive than the workstation version (and the workstation version will not install on Server).

 

Reasonably priced??? The academic version is still $2000. Pro is $120. Usually, I don't suspect people of piracy if they talk about running Pro. However, if someone starts talking about Server or Advanced Server, I get suspicious. How many consumers spend $2000 for an OS?

 

As for your NFR copy, those have extremely limited availability. Most are restricted to TechNet, MSDN members, Corporate Evaluators, and/or somehow regionalized (or the copies themselves are actually pirated). They either expire, or have *many* legal restrictions placed on them. In any event, the vast majority of people couldn't qualify for them. And even if they did get their hands on a copy, the license agreement might prohibit them from using it.

 

Actually, I like this line:

"There's no point in starting to suspect them of having pirated copies (even if many of them have)."

 

Whatever

[YuppieScum 0]

Quote:

It has absolutely no added features or added performance benefit over Pro. Zilch, Nada.

Wrong. The server versions allow more than 10 concurrent connections, more than 2Gb of user process RAM and more than 2 CPUs.

Also they have DNS, DCHP and NAT/ICS services, as well as being able to be Domain Controllers - which can be great if you're setting up a home network, studying for your MSCE, etc...

[Damien Green 0]

I can understand what you're saying, but I also agree with the others that the main reason we're here is to pick up various bits of info that might help us solve our own problems.

 

While I certainly don't condone software piracy (I own both NT4.0 and 2000 PRO Upgrade completely legitimately), I'm afraid it's an issue thats very much a part of the modern computer society, and it's not going to go away.

 

Of course, some people writing to this forum might be reporting problems they're having with pirated software - they're certainly aren't going to admit it, but at the end of the day, these are the sorts of people who wouldn't pay for the software anyway, so companies such as Microsoft are probably not loosing out as much as you think(their profits certainly don't reflect huge losses). Indeed you could say that the extra input is very helpful, and the more people we have writing to this forum, the greater the diversity of issues covered.

 

Personally I only see piracy as a real issue when it affects the smaller software developer, people who write cheap commercial software, programs like Thematic, Magic Engine (PC Engine Emulator). I always ensure that I pay the registration fee for the full version, it's more a thanks to the author for their hard work. It makes me angry to see various websites providing links to the full versions of pirated unpaid for software.

[DrSchmoe 0]

Yuppie: Sure, those features go without saying; my mistake for not clairifying. But I contend there are no added performance benefits or features (of a consumer level) to be had. I was responding to this line:

 

"DrSchmoe, many people like to have the biggest, badest machine with the latest and greatest software."

 

I doubt he means "rack mounded quad processor Xeon," I was thinking more along the lines of a game PC outfitted with a GeForce.

 

If all you are doing is playing Quake, your framerates would probably suffer with the server versions of the OS. However, I am not sure if this has been benchmarked yet.

 

Still, a home user likely can't afford a machine with more than 2 CPUs, isn't going to buy more than 2GB of RAM, and won't have more than 10 concurrent connections.

 

Besides, the concurrent connection limit is in the license agreement, it is not hard coded. See the conflict between O'Reilly and Microsoft 3 years ago regarding the limit. Old press releases might still be available.

 

A home user is not likely to run any of the features you listed. And besides, if they *are* studying for their MSCE, Microsoft provides 120 day time limited versions, plus, they qualify for Academic pricing.

 

In any event, it still doesn't provide justification for piracy. Which is back to my original point

 

It is really intesting to see people get fired up about this. I wasn't expecting this reaction.

[Shrink 0]

The contention, however, appears to be over your point concerning who should/shouldn't be using Advanced Server, not over whether we should be attempting to filter, shun, or censor those suspected of using pirated versions of Win2k.

 

 

 

------------------

Shrink

 

92% of the things we worry about don't happen - but the other 8% DO!

 

PIII 450@504

Soltek SL67B Mobo with 128 mb pc100

20 gig Quantum KX 8 gig Quantum CR

SBlive Value

Voodooo3 3000 AGP

... and a bunch of USB Stuff

Windows 2000 Pro Retail

[RoGuE 0]

well i have a friend who has more money than is good for him and he runs advanced server out of his home....he has an email server and a chat server that he runs from it, as well as an awesome lan set up (with t1 i might add), we have have killer q3 lan parties on it....ill be sure to tell him not to come here if he has problems. just kidding! im just making a point that just about everybody at this forum has a friend like ken. the rich guy who has everything including a $30,000 server set up in their home, well maybe not that over the edge, but i know serveral ppl who run their businesses out of there home who would and do use win2k advanced server. im considering purchasing it myself, i just landed a job running a 300 computer network for a local isd...im considering scrapping the whole token ring and novell setup for a total microsoft setup....anyway, in this very active economy we are enjoying right now you would be very suprised to know how many ppl are running very advanced setups out of thier homes. i myself have 5 computers in my home and i use one for a server.....its cheezy but it serves its purpose....i only run an ftp and a q3 server on it....so lets keep the suspicions down and help ppl out....that's my opinion and i could be wrong

[Mr.Sneis 0]

Personally, I hate Microsoft's tech support, everytime i call them (no offense to whom it may concern) an indian guy always answers my call. I cant understand a friggin word they say, on the other hand, i have this cool message forum, with guys just like me posting their problems and solutions. A lot of times, there is a guy with the same problem as me, and i get mine fixed in the process, or I post a msg and get replied and read at my leisure. I would like to thank Anthony Toste for providing my voodoo3 drivers a month before i got offical ones, and that guy who made dell's liveware INF's. Yes there are pirates out there, but who hasn't played a pirated game, or listens to their GIGS worth of pirated mp3's. Sadly enough, a computer at my school is run on advanced server (pirated). This is a very controversial subject, and i agree, pirates sometimes do suck. But for the hell of computer gurus out there, keep this forum to straight, problem and answer stuffings.

[Robor 0]

I have to disagree with your point about Advanced Server and piracy here. I do think you're right that most people who post here using Advanced Server are probably not legit owners. That said I'm also willing to bet that they are also using it at home for nothing more than testing and learning. It's not as though everyone here works for a company who is willing to let them tinker and play with hardware and software that costs that much. So what does it hurt of a tech gets ahold of a copy to play with at home? I seriously doubt Microsoft would even care about someone using it like that. Considering the competition they are getting from Linux they may even encourage a person doing that. Now a business running on it is another story but that wasn't the focus of the topic here.

 

Rob

 

PS - My copy of Pro is legit because I won it from the Microsoft giveaway.

[Mr. ThickDick 0]

I personally have no problem with piracy. I'll admit I am a software pirate. But you know what? I don't care what you think. I may pirate software, but I also buy over 95% of it. One thing I will not do is pay for Microsoft's overpriced products. Advanced server may not be overpriced, considering it's use, but Office and Win98 are. I'll take from Microsoft whatever I please to make up for their poor business practice which hurts EVERYONE else in the field. Sure, I'm dual booting Win98 and Advanced Server, but I don't come here looking for tech support. I don't even call Microsoft for my REGISTERED version of Win98. Phone tech support only has answers for idiots who don't have a clue how to use their computers. So EAT ME.

[Winger300 0]

I agree with the above message that if you are the average home user (who obviously isn't going to pay $2000 for their Operating system ) is not doing anything wrong using the software to learn from, and play around with. If they didnt pirate it, them they simply wouldnt buy it! So MS aren't loosing out at all.

 

If they distribute it then its another matter all together.

 

Most people here are using Windows2000 for gaming, well its definately not a gamers OS, and support is rather sparodic for games, so why should a gamer buy Windows2000?

[Super Fly 0]

Because I built a dual celeron box and win98 doesn't support smp. Because I have greater than 128 megs of ram and win98 doesn't know what to do with it. Because trying to play games in 98, though the "framerate" may be faster, usually involves so much hard drive thrashing that for seconds at a time I am playing at .5 fps. Win98 blows. I even find it pretty stable. It is just a crappy OS. Slow, fragile, and, in my opinion, worthless. I am using win2k so I can be the vocal minority that assures that THERE WILL BE some decent game support on a decent OS.

 

(Win98: At least it ain't the MacOS)

[kermster 0]

one more thing i forgot who said once quite awhile back that if it hadnt been for people pirating the first versions of windows so much windows wouldnt be as popular(or at least in control of market so damn much)as it is today.

 

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr. ThickDick:

I personally have no problem with piracy. I'll admit I am a software pirate. But you know what? I don't care what you think. I may pirate software, but I also buy over 95% of it. One thing I will not do is pay for Microsoft's overpriced products. Advanced server may not be overpriced, considering it's use, but Office and Win98 are. I'll take from Microsoft whatever I please to make up for their poor business practice which hurts EVERYONE else in the field. Sure, I'm dual booting Win98 and Advanced Server, but I don't come here looking for tech support. I don't even call Microsoft for my REGISTERED version of Win98. Phone tech support only has answers for idiots who don't have a clue how to use their computers. So EAT ME.

[kmoed 0]

If microsoft and other companies actually SUPPORTED the people that buy there products there might be less pirating going on.Ever try to get a answer from Ms support about blue screens that keep re-acccuring.HA!

I for one am sick and tired of dishing out the cash for software and once purchased having to comb through message boards for support issues(thank god for boards like this one)because the software vendor doesent care about your problems.I cant remeber one instance in the last 5 years where I actually had a problem solved by tech support of a software vendor.I have always had to look to the experts on the net for answers. There's no exscuse for theft but when you piss the people of that are supporting your company your asking for it.

[T-BoNe 0]

Instead of giving messege board members flak why not fly to the far east and kill all the street vendors selling illegal copies? To those of you that think piracy is ok: A honorable thief is as common as a left-handed samurai...

[mr_yellow 0]

hehe.. I want in on this one...

 

Is it agreed that the people who did legally obtain their OS software have full paid access to the software company's Tech Support?

 

Yes?? YEs?? yes...

 

Then why the f* come here?!?!? You've got a multi-billion dollar support group waiting for you on the other side of the phone, and you end up asking (us) the commoners...

 

Oh wait, so you did phone them up. so why are you still posting here? cause they couldn't help??? Ah.. i see.. 2G's down the drain.. should have brough that pirated CD that guy offered me on the street for like $20...

 

If you don't get my point yet, This is a help forum. People want help. Paying for win2k is basically paying for their tech-support. So if you do have a legit copy, why hang around here? Maybe to help other legit owners right?? Save them time from phoning up MS right?

 

Can someone honestly tell me they offered advice/help on this forum that they obtained via paid microsoft support??? as in, "yeah, i know how to fix THAT problem cause i just phone MS last week about it.."

 

No right?(at least i hope no, or else my point is sh!t).

 

so why pay so much for the "useless" tech support??? You end up solving it yourself, or through advice from someone else who solved it themselves..

 

Hence, pirated w2k or not, we're all the same here. We should treat each other the same.

 

mr_yellow

[mr_yellow 0]

Just a side note:Not related to my above rant.

 

Yes I have a pirated copy.

Yes I believe pirating is wrong. If you can afford it and it's going to be 'mission critical', then you better pay for it.

 

Whoa.. that don't make sense.. yep, i'm f'd that way...

 

Just a funny tidbit:

Guess how i found out about this forum? By PHONING LEGITIMATE TECH SUPPORT(that i paid for and now regret paying for). Funny eh? Just goes to show you how useless they are.

[SHS 0]

Yes mr_yellow I know about this in fact get lot e-mail about "Clue's Tech Support".

[mickbench 0]

Has anyone actually called MS Tech Support for help on their Server Products?

 

I work with three Windows NT 4.0 Server Rack Mounted Domain Controllers, with over 100 NT 4.0 Workstations, and MS Tech Support in the UK is not what it seems.

 

First off, you have to pay extra ££££ for Support on NT Server 4.0, and any OEM Versions of NT you have to ring your Hardware Supplier. Not really very good.

 

If you want to resolve a problem with your O/S, you HAVE to look in Newsgroups, FAQ's and places such as this.

 

You can always try MS Technet (Which if you want the good stuff you have to pay) etc..

 

Its little wonder that MS Products do get pirated. Just how much is W2K? Full version. £250 + or upgrade from Win98 £140 + Not the cheapest O/S.

 

For the record, my copy is not pirated, but received from our Hardware Suppliers at my place of work. The company doesn't want to update to W2K just yet, so they give them out to the Network and System Admins that work there... All two of us.. :->