Piracy...

[jazTec 0]

My feelings on pirated OS's is . . . . . . I am the guy that the employees that I work for come to for help . . If I don't know the answers to their questions then I don't have a job,

so I have to keep my-self one step above the rest. . By learning the 'NEW" OS then I can say that I am better than the next guy.

The company that I work for is the person who needs to go out and pay 2000.00 of each of their 8 servers and 150.00 for each of their 2000 workstations not me,

and if you think that MS is worried about little old me who is running a cracked beta ( 2195 ) copy of win2k then think again they are worried about companies

who have deployed this OS with out paying the 15,000 dollars for a site agreement, or the guy that is on the corner selling burnt copies as the real things for 120.00.

I spend all day on a MS product, working on their servers and supporting their workstation and when the day comes that MSCE training to get re certified on win2k

from NT4x is free then I'll pay for the OS, until then it is better to keep to my self and keep quiet

[jmiller 0]

I purchased my copy of W2K far less than $200.00 and it is not an upgrade. It is however OEM wich simply means MS gives no support what so ever but lets face it what support do you really get .... For the common tweaky out there know more than any level one tech at MS and most level two.. I know been down that road With 95 and 98 and have to reverse engineer an after market SCSI driver to work with both OS. But MS got it right in W2K and they work fantastic.

Hey lets face it I am no MS fan but there OS work better for games than anyone out there hands down. Yes I think $200 is too high for W2K _ell what I paid was too high but the fact is I wanted it, I use it, And you bet my 17 year old son is not going to see his father brake the law by pirating MS or anyone elses software. If you use it pay for it. how would you feel if you had your car for sale in front of your house and someone in the middle of the night broke in and stole it just because you asked to much for it. Far off base you say..... Is it

 

Regards

 

Jim

[Seldzar 0]

That Car analagy is not relevent here. If the car cost less than a few dollars to produce and you had 10's of millions of them and were making billions off the sales of the other cars would you even notice the one car gone? No, you would be more concerned with the guy just over the way selling the stolen cars from you for a lot less and saying they were legit cars from you. Piracy is piracy from the smallest to the biggest, it's all a matter of what you believe and if you give f**k. Do you?

=)

 

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§E£DZÅR

http://www.win2knews.com

[DrSchmoe 0]

Lets not forget that Win2K "does not cost a few bucks to produce." In fact, the total is near $2 Billion.

 

MS is projected to sell 25-30 Million copies this year, doing the math, we see that costs MS $80/copy! That doesn't include costs of distribution, replication, marketing done by retailers, end user support, service pack development, development of the next version, etc.

 

Contrary to popular belief, decent support is available from MS. Check the MS Knowledgebase, probably the most powerful support website available. Furthermore, many new copies of Win2K are purchased with new systems. In these instances, the computer manufacturer (Dell, Gateway, etc) is required to provide support, and generally they do a pretty good job.

 

I am still amazed how many people would never steal a candy bar, but wouldn't give software piracy a second thought. It seems a bit hypocrital doesn't it?

 

My upgrade cost $95 after rebate, I don't understand why that is too expensive (it was a full retail copy from Buy.com). Some people pay more than that for shoes, and they only use the pair for a year at most. NT 4 was around for >3 years. If we assume that Win2K is around for the same period, the cost per day is roughly 10 cents.

 

[This message has been edited by DrSchmoe (edited 03 March 2000).]

[SHS 0]

DrSchmoe.

Let say MS sold 30 Million copies Win2k this year, do your math $6,000,000,000 at avg $200 PoP & that doesn't include the other MS products.

Now that BIG A@@ NUMBER just for one products.

[DrSchmoe 0]

You are confusing retail prices with wholesale prices. Just because "Computer Store X" is charging $199 for the upgrade, doesn't mean they are paying that much. In fact, the retailers buy the software from MS for around $120. If MS's cost was $80 per disc, they are making a 33% profit, which is very low for the software industry (typically nearer 75%). The other versions of Windows (server, advanced, etc) help bring this percentage up, but the effect is negligible since their sales volumes are low.

 

Take a $250 Toshiba DVD player for example. Best Buy (or other stores) pay around $95 for the player. Yet, after marketing, staff, distribution, taxes, display, promotions, etc, they only make around 10-15%.

 

A $1000 set of Bose speakers costs your local retailer roughly $275.

 

Quake III, which you can buy for $50 at CompUSA, goes for $10-15 (depending on quantity) on the wholesale market.

 

Does this mean we should rip of Bose and id since they are obviously exploiting us?

[PraetorJudis 0]

Against all my better instincts, I'm adding to this thread.

 

Firstly. How is this topic hardware related? This thread belongs in the 'Other' forum.

 

Secondly. As much I agree with (or see the point of) most of the posts in this thread, we need to be careful. Let's say there's a rich young man with money to burn and not an ounce of sense in his head. He goes to a store to buy the best operating system he can. A salesman (smiling shark-like at his luck) sells him Win2k Adv. Server. The rich rube heads home and with the help of several impatient and more technology-aware friends gets it installed as a dual boot with his existing operating system (Win 98), because his friend's tell him (rolling their eyes) that the new operating system might not run all his applications and games. Eventually, tired of answering his incessant questions, they point him here for advice and consultation. Once he gets here, does he tell us his entire history? No. Does he tell us that he really doesn't know what's going on? No. Do we have anyway whatsoever to differentiate him from a pirate? No we do not.

 

Now that's a pretty far-fetched scenario, but not impossible. My point is that we have no right to sit in judgement of the members of this board. We simply don't have all the information we need to accurately assess the situation.

 

To actively point out to anyone that they are undeserving of help because we suspect them of piracy would make us guilty of hubris, not to mention be rude and exclusionary.

 

If you suspect someone of piracy, then don't reply to their message. Plain and simple. Otherwise we'll end up with a witch hunt on our hands and that always ends in the destruction of at least one innocent.

 

 

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*gniltrohc yawa srednaw*

[SHS 0]

Read my lip's, Sale ver disk sold give you over all avg.

Were talk about Software not Hardware.

[DrSchmoe 0]

Who is sitting in judgement?

 

I am just doing my best to incite a guilt-trip Besides, it is an interesting topic, and people have a lot of unique viewpoints. I never really expected this many though.

 

There seems to be four camps:

1.) The "I don't cares." Just here for support, could care less, etc.

2.) The "piracy is bad" camp, although they seem to be somewhat non-vocal.

3.) Those justifying their decision to copy.

4.) Those who feel piracy is OK.

 

I am not sure if I understand SHS's message. I think he was trying to say that a sale ruins my stats?

 

Well, software can be sold as a loss-leader. Many retailers have been selling Q3 at a loss, just to get customers in the door.

 

Thank heavens it is Friday!!!!

[Tim Bazzinett 0]

My 2 cents on the subject since somebody did bring up the far east. There are people over there who can never afford the high prices of MS software, so it is pirated. Most of them (99%) are happy to pay the $5-10 for a copy. Ever been to Sim Lim Square in Singapore? Man, what a place! I should have picked up more that just a few games while I was there. But, these places are geared towards those who can't afford the software. Even in America, with the house and gas prices going higher than ever, you have to start cutting corners somewhere. Most of you who do, I could care less if you are doing it. You just might have good reasons. One could be a guy who just loves computers, but is fanacially burdened by a house payment, a large number of children on a single income and bills up the yin-yang. I do know that feeling very well (except I just have one child).

 

PS, got my copy by the MCSE certs, just the 120-day versions though

 

[This message has been edited by Tim Bazzinett (edited 04 March 2000).]

[Arkos Reed 0]

Just my two cents.....

 

Some time ago I've seen the price of the MS Office Pro 97 sold in Quebec (something around 500 US$)

Guess how much we were paying for the very same version here in France? (except for the spell checking and grammar tools that are a little bit different) : 1000 US$!!!!

 

make your own conclusions about this, but I think we're cashcows... If this does not legitimate a bit piracy.... then tell me what does.

 

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-=[Reed]=-

MSI-6167, Athlon-600 @850 , 320 Mb PC100 SDRAM

AHA-2940 U2W, IBM HDs x2(18Go U2W 7200rpm), Plextor Combo (PX32TSi, PX412R)

Xentor32, IIyama 19", SBLive!1024

Alcatel 1000 DSL modem, generic Realtec 8029 NIC

MS Win2K French Final retail and MS WinNT4.0

 

[This message has been edited by Arkos Reed (edited 04 March 2000).]

[JimmyK 0]

I really wasnt going to say anything but for godsa sake man!!!! are we really f*cking arguing about MS nnot having enough money??!?! are u guys onc crack!??!! the guy is worth over 100 BILLION DOLLARS!!!! IF anything, ANYTHING we should not be arguing about ms not getting enough money.

[INFERNO2000 0]

Ya know what? I'll be perfectly legit. My copies are NOT legit.

None of my OS's are legit, and I have 95, 98SE(both of these with legit manuals and keys, but the cd was burned because what I got came with my ****ing compaq), NT4 WKS and SErver, and Win2K prof and Adv. Ser.

 

hte only one I use is Win2kProf.

And believe me, I'm seriously wanting to get a legit copy--I love this and it's well worth my money.

 

But, we get copies of software with our college, and licenses for it

I don't have Win2K licensed personally, but hte college does, which is hwere I got the copy.

 

 

I come here so I can find things to tweak my windows with.

I know the system well enough that I am tech support for all the users around me...

 

It's just nice to see what's going on around with other people's systems.

 

my 2 cents.

[INFERNO2000 0]

for the record---I hate my parents' standard keyboard. Give me my Logitech wireless ergo any day

 

pardon the typos.

[Kyosho46vr 0]

Hey,

lets remember why we use computers, for information and communication, however you do it, those items are legit in life. And I will not down some-one and say you cant afford ....... you cant have it, this industry has grown due to the ability of the masses to use it, wether it is legit or not.

If you are worried about who has a "real" copy and who doesn't, then you are too blinded......turn that focus inward.

 

My 2 rubels

 

Ned

[nagual 0]

first off : SHS would you be so kind as to clarify your posts? im sure they`re interesting points =) if youre more comfortable in german i`d be glad to translate.

second : this is a tech msg board not a moral paper..go to church or something

and i thankfully repudiate all your pointing moral fingers..i try and help ppl and need help myself sometimes, lets let it stay at that

[DocSilly 0]

I like this point of view on piracy -> http://www.3ag.net/item_display.php/steal/1/

Above linked page says in much better words then I could find myself what I think about stealing software.

 

The only software not "legal" on my system is mIRC, running for over 30 days without paying the shareware price ... though I'll pay for it when I keep using it.

I run Win2k Pro on my PC ($170 shipped) and my CPP beta on my Laptop (couldn't yet afford second Win2k Pro copy).

 

There is no excuse for using warezed software.

 

*** slips into asbestos suit and waits for the flames ***

 

Concerning the post that started this interesting discussion:

 

I agree that someone running a dual boot 98/Win2k ADVANCED server as a homeuser can make you wonder a little bit ... Server/5 CAL (ca. $ 800) will handle most needs of a homeuser to run his Q3 server/FTP ... (prices are fullversions from TheBigStore)

 

So, which "homeuser" would really run Win98 and then cough up ca. $ 3000 for adv. server/25 CAL to get: up to 8 CPU, up to 8 GB RAM, Cluster service and Network Load Balancing?

 

So, here he is, this rare (rich) dude, the one who has a system that needs adv. server because he has an awesome Quad-CPU setup with 3 GB of RAM (for his homenetwork) ... I would estimate the hardware cost somewhere around 10K or up, maybe WAY up, and you won't find your Quad-CPU rig at your local small computershop ... this dude wouldn't care about paying per minute to get MS Techsupport.

This rare dude might even post here to get his SB Live up and running on his Quad-CPU rig ... ;(

 

The rest would only need Win2k SERVER ... I think a decent dual PIII CPU rig with 1 GB of RAM (and a nice SCSI/RAID system) is the upper limit (or beyond) for 99.7% of all users and Win2k SERVER would handle everything you need.

 

Those unfamiliar with the difference between SERVER and ADVANCED SERVER can check http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000/guide/server/features/default.asp .

 

Well, I better shuddup, sigh, and all I wanted was to post the link ... but you know how it is ....

 

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DocSilly homepage

[EddiE314 0]

Personally i don't think piracy is bad if you don't make a profit, i don't try to sell anyone burnt copies of win2k...i just give them away and at the same time i tell the person, "its well worth $250-$320 US dollars" so if you like it....buy it. I just bought my boxed version last week....

 

Hey, at least i have a pretty CD now.

[BaronX 0]

I guess that this piracy issue has been discussed and debated over and over. I don't think that piracy is completely a bad thing. As any cultural product (ie software, songs, films, etc.) piracy can only increase the products'popularity. And thus, once it's popular, it get endorsed by companies who pays royalties or licenses rights to the creator. Just think about the music industry, it's fonctions almost as same as in the software industry. And whoever can say that they never did copy or tape songs from radio or CD's? Isn't that piracy too?

[DocSilly 0]

Copyrights are very different between Music and Software, I read an extensive article about the German copyright issues in the C'T magazine a few weeks ago .... but I don't want to get too deep into this one (and it only covers german laws).

[jdulmage 0]

are you attempting to beat my record?

[EddiE314 0]

No, this is a serious topic.

[nagual 0]

lol, nice answer :-)

[mightymouse 0]

What if that person has access to MSDN? I do. And can download Advanced Server as part of my subscription. Not everyone is a pirate.

Maybe he is or maybe he's not, I don't care. I come here for the knowledge so many of you have, and are so willing to share.

Let's not start worrying about who's doin' what. ike someone else said turn 'em in to microsoft. let the worry about it...

[JMD 0]

This is one hell of a topic I love it.

 

I legally bought my copy of NT 4.0 several years ago. There were two occasions when I had to use MS Tech support, what a waist of time. e mail after e mail and still the problem wasn’t solved. (DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT IT COST FOR PHONE SUPPORT) The last time I called it was ONE DAY after my tech support ended, they wouldn’t even talk to me. You know how the problem was solved...a virus solved it for me..had to do a complete reinstall. Next time I will take my friend up and use a pirated copy. I do not bleed for Bill Gates.

 

Secondly I'm a student and I survive of off pirated copies for learning. Has anyone priced student versions of Cad software????? No can do, way to much money.

 

But I can say this I don't believe people should us pirated Cad, or any other software for profit. I will eventually freelance once I graduate, and I can promise I will use legally purchased software to run my business, but right now I can't afford the software I use for education.

 

So as far as I'm concerned thank God for pirating for the purpose of education, and education only......that's why I get A+s in all my cad courses