I don't mean to piss everyone off..........

INFERNO2000 · October 31, 2000

FIC (PA 2013)

Down8 · October 31, 2000

Quote:

Originally posted by ByronT:
BTW, did anyone check out that site I mentioned for some funnies? (http://www.cardhouse.com/drcliff/garage/tech/techsupport.htm)
Later!

I checked it out. It looks like the kind of... 'modifications' I had to do to some of my 3-1/2 to 5-1/4 drive mounts to make them fit my old ass SCSI drives.

-bZj

Down8 · November 1, 2000

I figured you all could use a little bit of... *happiness* in your surfing [that's why people come to this post, isn't it?]:

She's my desktop right now... she also goes to my school.

-bZj

[This message has been edited by Down8 (edited 01 November 2000).]

someone_nt · November 1, 2000

Interesting post...what could I say...ummm.....OK...LINUX RULEZ!!!

Just kidding :-)

jdulmage · November 1, 2000

notice that at the time of that post of the picture, someone_nt gets "69" posts?? hmm, 69?? nah, can't mean anything....

anyways...

ByronT · November 1, 2000

Hey! jd! You got your senior member status back... (and all those posts!)

Not that you were crying over it - and not that it means anything...

Later!

jdulmage · November 1, 2000

exactly...so why did you mention it?

INFERNO2000 · November 1, 2000

Nah, My guess is in 20s or 30s

CM · November 1, 2000

Hey, the Linux ad is gone... they figurate out at least that the website is for Windows 2000...

Anyone saw this advertising from Microsoft:

Large version : http://www.koehntopp.de/kris/msad.jpg

...and for Blackcorb (after the russian crackers mutated the Blackcorb source with Linux)

[This message has been edited by CM (edited 02 November 2000).]

Down8 · November 2, 2000

BabelFish translation of above ad:

"an open operating system does not only have predivide"

whatever that means...

-bZj

CM · November 2, 2000

"An open operating system does not just have advantages"

and on the upper right "It can mutate unexpectedly. But with Windows 2000, you get all of the services and support from the same vendor. That will save time and real money. Visit http://www.microsoft.com/germany/windows2000 for more info"

Open Source OS = bad

Windows 2000 = good

Found an article about this here - http://www.it-director.com/00-10-26-3.html

[This message has been edited by CM (edited 02 November 2000).]

someone_nt · November 2, 2000

Although i Love Windows 2000 a lot, I must admit I would prefer Windows to be open source.

It's true indeed Linux needs to standarize much more. 5 major distributions (SUSE, Caldera, Redhat, TurboLinux, Mandrake...), 3 diferent package systems, no native USB support yet...But linux will get better in time, and maybe some day, will replace Windows tech.

But having a single vendor for a product doesn't mean this product will become better.

Just look at MS prices. How can they spect me to pay about 200 EUR for a retail Windows ME copy, or even 360 EUR for Windows 2000 Pro??????

Open source can also be inovatibe, original, and generally tends to fix bugs much faster than just a single company. Open source also means price drop, because nobody controls the source, and so, many products can be built without paying royalties.

I personally would like to see MS prices drop inmediatly...they're too high, and Windows 2000 should be worth 72 EUR (VAT included).

I beleive that (right by now), windows 2000 is the way to go in Workstations and home PC (no matter what microsoft says about 2000 being a 'non consumer' OS, STABILITY is what matters), and linux is the perfect Web server (APACHE 4 linux).

============================================

Hey, guys! Did you realize there's now another subject to talk about? This post will sure reach 100 pages soon... :-)

INFERNO2000 · November 2, 2000

I'll support that statement. Linux just doesn't have what I need for a personal OS...but Windows2000 does.

FOr a small server, I'd say Windows, but for Webservers and stuff that is importatn, definitely Linux

Down8 · November 2, 2000

I would disagree with some parts of the above:

Why should MS Open Source Windows? So you can build cute little widgets into your OS with your mad h4x0ring ski11z? Or so you could get it for free, knowing that is is the best all-around OS on the market [which it would cease to be if Open Sourced]?

Linux is growing progressively, as the ad suggests, and will have USB support in the 2.4 kernel release [if if ever gets released]. The fear of splintering is very real, and could kill the *nix wannabe if some standardization is not seen soon.

MS can expect you to pay seemingly high prices because: 1) You will [or you just grab a w4r3z version], and 2) Because they have spent how many years working on Win2K? Do you think all of their programmers were working for peanuts? Somebody has to pay those guys in Redmond [and keep Gates in a swimming pool full of money and the bloody souls of sacrificed virgins].

While Open Source can be "innovative, original, and generally fix bugs faster", this is contrary to what I've seen: Hacked together work-arounds that almost work, if you've got this exact network card in your 3rd PCI slot held down with Winterfresh gum, not JuicyFruit, as JuicyFruit would cause a system crash. I think people are more willing to build stuff that works when they are getting paid to do so.

Would you really like to see the prices drop? So MS could layoff half it's coding staff, and Whistler can get released in 2020 instead of 2002? If you don't want to pay, don't. 5c4n 7h3 w4r3z 51735 4nd f7p 51735 4nd 5734L 17, but first: click on this |BANNER|, then go to the 129th word on the page, use that as you password and click on that, and the 32nd word on the next page as your username. And don't forget to upload, because there is a 12 to one [u/l to d/l] ratio on this site.

I use Win2K Server because I want to be able to play the latest games, use the latest hardware, and still maintain some semblance of stability. If I didn't want a server, I would use my legal copy of WinMe, and if I wanted to only run a pure server, I would run a real *nix, like Solaris or HP-UX or something, on real hardware, not a PC [personal computer].

My pennies,

-bZj

someone_nt · November 3, 2000

Quote:

I would disagree with some parts of the above:

Ok, and I will disagree with some of your arguments. This is nothing personal :-)

Quote:

Why should MS Open Source Windows? So you can build cute little widgets into your OS with your mad h4x0ring ski11z? Or so you could get it for free, knowing that is is the best all-around OS on the market [which it would cease to be if Open Sourced]?

Both are good reasons to make it opensource :-). But another good reason would be that MS would have to follow the standards, not try to change them

Quote:

Linux is growing progressively, as the ad suggests, and will have USB support in the 2.4 kernel release [if if ever gets released]. The fear of splintering is very real, and could kill the *nix wannabe if some standardization is not seen soon

2.4 stable kernel is to be released in december, and will have USB support

Linux will standarize, for sure, but that won't happen until 2 years.

Quote:

MS can expect you to pay seemingly high prices because: 1) You will [or you just grab a w4r3z version], and 2) Because they have spent how many years working on Win2K? Do you think all of their programmers were working for peanuts? Somebody has to pay those guys in Redmond [and keep Gates in a swimming pool full of money and the bloody souls of sacrificed virgins

I will pay an OS that is worth its value in terms of STABILITY, compability, and security. I spect new OS to be faster than their ancestors, not slower. Windows 2000 sure has many new features over NT 4, and is worth the upgrade. But I still think MS charges a too high price for an UPGRADE. Think it wisely...Windows 98 was nothing else that WIN95+AGP+USB+IE4, and still, and upgrade costed more than 120 EUR.

Quote:

While Open Source can be "innovative, original, and generally fix bugs faster", this is contrary to what I've seen: Hacked together work-arounds that almost work, if you've got this exact network card in your 3rd PCI slot held down with Winterfresh gum, not JuicyFruit, as JuicyFruit would cause a system crash. I think people are more willing to build stuff that works when they are getting paid to do so.

You're talking about typical home users, not advanced users like you (not me, because I can't call myself an advanced user, I am, and
robably will be a newbie forever).

Quote:

Would you really like to see the prices drop? So MS could layoff half it's coding staff, and Whistler can get released in 2020 instead of 2002? If you don't want to pay, don't. 5c4n 7h3 w4r3z 51735 4nd f7p 51735 4nd 5734L 17, but first: click on this |BANNER|, then go to the 129th word on the page, use that as you password and click on that, and the 32nd word on the next page as your username. And don't forget to upload, because there is a 12 to one [u/l to d/l] ratio on this site.

Nope. we just have to wait until PCWORLD releases another 120 day evaluation version, that, in fact, is the full version :-)(This happened in Europe, i'm not joking)
Now, seriously, GNU coders also spend a lot of time and effort codign linux, and other open source solutions. And they DON'T GET PAID A CENT. Just look at linux. There is a new kernel build almost every 2 weeks. This is a better solution than the "2 Service Packs a year" MS solution. By the way, why aren't we charged for Service packs? Aren't they almost like a new NT version each one? Many people don't trust NT as a server platform. MS doesn0t follow the standards, and creating a server with NT is much more expensive than linux.

Another good example are emulators. I know most of them are for the sole use of gamming. But we have a good example. Bleem! is charged a high price (30 EUR) , because its compatibility is very low, and doesn't work in Windows 20000. An free, alternative, EPSXE, costs nothing, and still, is more compatible than Bleem!.

Quote:

I use Win2K Server because I want to be able to play the latest games, use the latest hardware, and still maintain some semblance of stability. If I didn't want a server, I would use my legal copy of WinMe, and if I wanted to only run a pure server, I would run a real *nix, like Solaris or HP-UX or something, on real hardware, not a PC [personal computer].

My pennies,
-bZj

I agree with you. Linux is not ready for Worstations and gamming, yet. That's why I use Windows 2000. But linux is also great, and I love having a lot of GNU tools that allow me to make programs in C, mount a server, work with OpenGL graphics...

Not all small companies can afford buying a real UNIX server. That's why they use Linux. And remevb
But Open source is the future. Closed solutions, like NT server, should become more open. You can make businesss with Open source, really.

I'm not anti NT. I love NT, because it's the first windows that can trully be called STABLE AND MULTIMEDIA. NT is still a good OS, the best for Worsktations. But linux (or maybe a not so imposible MAC-OS X intel port) may replace windows in the future.

And remember, OPEN SOURCE RULEZ!!!!!!

PS: Feel free to add your coments, I'm not close minded, and can change my opinion

EddiE314 · November 5, 2000

thats alot of typing, i won't comment because i didn't feel like reading it all

jdulmage · November 5, 2000

yo Eddie...

get your ass back on ICQ once in awhile

Down8 · November 5, 2000

Contrary to what this may seem like, I like this discussion, and am not attacking or anything like that.

I think some one who has been in the game as long as MS is the standard, as is evidenced by the fact that anything you buy will have Windows drivers, but might not have Linux drivers [changing, but still fact]. Also, if Ms was to only follow, they would no longer be a leader, which is what every company wants to be.

I don't use any USB devices now, so I only hope 2.4 will help X run better. Why do you see Linux standardizing in 2 years?

Well, truthfully, the only legal copy of a MS OS I have is WinME [which I won from MS, you'd think I'd be more grateful ], and I don't run it because my friend got me Win2K. But, while I do think their products are a bit high in price, I think that of most PC stuff, so that's business as usual... If I had the money though... I still wouldn't pay $1000 for Win2K Server, but I might pay $300 for Win2K Pro [i am a starving student, literaly].

I still can't get RedHat to refresh properly.

Is having a new kernel every two weeks a good thing? Definately not for the home user. They already get pissy when they need to upgrade from 3.1 to 98 how many years later? Can there be a standard if it changes every two weeks? If I can run a server off my home system, then that = cheaper that Linux to me. Witness: yes, I can run my 486 as a server, but that is because it is a million years old and Linux supports every part of it now. To run a truely reliable server from Linux, it will cost you just as much in supported hardware [or lesss, if you use older hardware, but it might not be reliable then], and tech support than it does to run an Nt server where everything is supported, and a company would be run out of town for not providing complete documentation. Nt is close to Linux in price when you add in the technical know-how cost.

EPSXE is free because that is the nature of people who use Linux: they want things for free. Don't get me wrong, I don't think they are all theives and h4x0rz, but Linus released Linux as a free wannabe *nix. Linux people [*glittering generalization alert*] want the stability of a true UNIX without the price tag. Who do you ***** to when EPSXE doesn't work though? No rights without responsiblilties.

I do actually have an early Mac OS X Intel port. I havent tried it yet though. I do want to though. I hope Windows doesn't get replaced in the future, but gets more... liked. and, more stable for the DataCenter Server, but I think it serves it's purpose very well for home/workstation use.

This is fun,

-bZj

Remember: With out Windows, MS would have never been hacked!

Bursar · November 5, 2000

Down: If you're really a student, you should be able to get MAJOR reductions on the price of MS software.

I know students in this country (UK) get massive discounts. They buy the product at massive reductions, and get a box with some forms inside. They just need to fill in these forms, get the college to sign and send them off.

MS then send them the software when they've verified the forms.

INFERNO2000 · November 5, 2000

Or, if you;re a student, p1r473 it from your fellow students.

------------------

NECESSARY EVIL

--Custom Built [H]ard PC--

Intel Pentium III Coppermine(FCPGA 370) 800eb @ 954 (with an original ThermalTake Golden Orb heatsink)

Asus CUSL2 motherboard(no onboard sound)Rev 1.02 BIOS; rev 1003.004 (Beta)

256MB PC133 SDRAM (1x256 Mushkin Rev2 CAS 2:2:2 5t/7t @ 159mhz)

SuperMicro 760A Full Tower(Modded for more fans and painted Rustoleum Hammered Black)

SP301-RA 300W Athlon Approved Redundant Cooling Power Supply

IBM15-7 15GB UDMA/100 7200RPM hdd & 30GB MAXTOR Diamand Max UDMA/66 7200 RPM hdd

7 80mm,3 92mm, and 2 120mm High Output fans(along with 2 80mm in Power Supply, CPU, and GeForce fans) spewing out well over 1000 CFM

Creative Labs SB Live! X-Gamer running on Liveware 3

Creative Labs Graphics Blaster Annhilator Pro GeForce256 DDR on Detonator 6.47

Logitech Itouch Pro Wireless Ergonomic Keyboard

Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer(Gen 1) & Everglide (HL Giganta)

Logitech Soundman G1 Powered Speakers & AIWA HPX222 Headphones

D-Link DFE-530TX+ 10/100 Ethernet Adapter

Compaq V720 17” (1280x1024) Monitor

Hewlett Packard 660Cse Printer

Memorex 4x2x24 CD-RW & Pioneer 6x DVD/ 32x CD-ROM

Hauppauge WinTV Go

Igor · November 6, 2000

Somebody stop this

CM

Senior Member

Posts: 272

Registered: Jul 1999

posted 02 November 2000 02:16

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"An open operating system does not just have advantages"

and on the upper right "It can mutate unexpectedly. But with Windows 2000, you get all of the services and support from the same vendor. That will save time and real money. Visit http://www.microsoft.com/germany/windows2000 for more info"

Open Source OS = bad

Windows 2000 = good

Found an article about this here - http://www.it-director.com/00-10-26-3.html

[This message has been edited by CM (edited 02 November 2000).]

someone_nt

Senior Member

Posts: 72

Registered: May 2000

posted 02 November 2000 19:11